Video for the web 29.97 vs 30...

LarsHD wrote on 4/4/2009, 11:34 PM
My original footage is from the 5D2 camera at 30 fps.

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QUESTION:
If I produce something that shall be viewed streamed/downloaded via the web, surely there is no point at all in converting this 30 fps material to 29.97 or anything else is there?

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Keeping the 30 fps as it is will surely gives me the best quality right?

No one at a computer screen would appreciate having 30 fps footage converted down to 29.97 and now and then seeing artefacts from this right?

Converting to 29.97fps or 24fps or 25fps would *ONLY* be advicable if you need to conform with specific television broadcast standards or if you want to achieve some kind of effect right?

Best,
Lars

Comments

John_Cline wrote on 4/5/2009, 12:10 AM
You are correct. Since your footage is 30fps and the destination format is for computer playback, then keep it at 30fps.
farss wrote on 4/5/2009, 12:56 AM
"QUESTION:


It depends. Sites such as Vimeo only support 24p unless you pay for the full service and then you can get support for 25p. What ever frame rate conversion they use I doubt it'll be done with as much care as you would take. I've seen a fair amount of juddery pans on Vimeo.

If it's for download or streamed of your own servers then it will not matter except 30p can need more bandwidth than 24p.

"...or if you want to achieve some kind of effect right?

I'm not certain that converting 30p to 24p makes it look quite the same as something shot at 24p. I've converted 50p to 50i and the outcome feels different to shooting 50i, probably because of the 1/100th shutter speed.

Bob.
John_Cline wrote on 4/5/2009, 3:54 AM
Bob's expanded answer is absolutely correct. Also, converting 30p to 24p or 25p is extremely difficult to do correctly.
LarsHD wrote on 4/5/2009, 4:00 AM
OK, good thanks! :)
LarsHD wrote on 4/5/2009, 5:22 AM
Reg 30 to 25. Even though this IS difficult, it is very depending on what content there is. Architecture / interior / slow moving yachts etc which I just converted to 25 worked very well. Had it been a game of tennis or car race etc things would have been different of course.

Lars
TheHappyFriar wrote on 4/5/2009, 6:09 AM
isn't 29.97 only for interlaced anyway? I've used lots of CG I've rendered @ 30fps & just made sure vegas imported it as progressive in a 29.97 project. Some has ocationatly been rendered to 29.97, some has been rendered to 30 (if i'm thinking, but it's all been under 5 minutes if that matters). Some is on youtube, some is on my website, some in SD, some in HD, some in 1/2 SD. I've never had ANYONE complain at all about stuttering, judders, etc. 29.97 is drop frame, just for timing, so it doesn't really have less frames in a video that's 30fps, just adjusts the length of each frame.

But if you CAN render to 30fps for delivery, do that. Since it's the same as the original, less possible issues that way. :) Computers don't really care though.... I've tested out 2.5fps to 120fps, always plays back smooth on my comp.
farss wrote on 4/5/2009, 6:36 AM
Computers don't care.
Only issue I've noticed is if the display's refresh rate doesn't match the frame rate sometimes you get problems with 'torn' frames.

However it does matter if you have mixed frame rates on the one timeline as they're all going to get rendered to the one frame rate and then you could have problems. Vegas does a very good job of converting 50i<>60i, almost as good as quite expensive hardware boxes. The problem is 25p<>30p.

29.97p<>30.00p is such a small difference that it can be accomodated with a simple speed change done one of several ways using Vegas, audio should be easily handled for that as well.
24p<>25p is the same although you can get audio problems such as the one Megabit had.
The problem that can arise if you ignore the problem seems to be that Vegas may simply drop a frame. It only happens quite rarely going 29.97p<>30p and even then it seems you may never notice it.

My policy is to try to get things right as it isn't that hard. Then if something wierd does happen it's one less thing to consider as the source of an issue.

Bob.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 4/5/2009, 10:48 AM
would make sense to drop a frame is the project is 29.97, all the footage is set to 30 & you render @ 29.97. But as long as the project AND render setting match it should be just how you preview it.

But as long as you set the project & render settings to the highest frame rate you have set for footage on the TL, you shouldn't have any eliminated frames either. IE if you have 60fps $ 29.97 footage in there, if you render to 29.97fps it will drop 1/2 of the frames for the 60fps. But if you render @ 60, all those frames will be contained & you'll just have double frames for the 29.97 footage.