Video Format

fosko wrote on 1/16/2004, 10:13 AM
Hi, I havn't been on the forum in a while... good to be back.

This is probably a stupid question... I'm pretty sure I know the answer.. but here goes.

I have this USB TV Capture card (Haupage I think).. I record a bunch of my TV shows. IT records them in MPEG1 or MPEG2. I just ordered a TDK Extermal 8x multi-format DVD burner. I understnad AVI is a better format. Is there any advantage to converting to AVI before I burn these shows onto DVD ??

I would think not..Garbage in/Garbage out.. can't get blood out of a turnip...and all that sort of stuff. but t hought I'd ask

THanks

Comments

Former user wrote on 1/16/2004, 10:15 AM
Only if you plan on doing any extensive editing. If you are just making a copy, then there is nothing to gain.

Dave T2
gold wrote on 1/16/2004, 10:58 AM
The major advantage digital has over analog is that once you sustain the initial quality loss of a lossy CODEC the quality never degrades. But this only works when you stay compressed in the initial form. Ideally one would edit uncompressed [this means no dv, capture directly from live video with an uncompressed capture card] rendering uncompressed until the final video and then compress. Anything else is a compromise. The problem is the massive amount of disk space and time required for editing; so for long videos this is generally not done. When one says AVI this could mean any of a number of compression schemes (CODECs) so be "Very, very, afraid."
Jsnkc wrote on 1/16/2004, 11:04 AM
"Is there any advantage to converting to AVI before I burn these shows onto DVD ??"

Well, since you need MPEG-2 files for DVD anyway what would be the point in converting them to AVi's and then have to convert them back to MPEG's?
fosko wrote on 1/19/2004, 9:27 AM
OK.. I'm not all that familiar wit the Video thing yet. I gaher if I want to write to DVD I need to save as MPEG2 ??

those files seem to be larger

I had been saving as MPEG1 and just watching on my PC. After editing out commercials a 1 hour show is about 635 megs. as MPEG2 it seems to be about twice as much.

I'm wondering how much I can fit on a standard DVD ? I'm assuming it's not measured in time like Music on a CD ?

Thanks for the help
Chienworks wrote on 1/19/2004, 9:44 AM
There is no inherent reason why an MPEG 2 file should be bigger than an MPEG 1 file. The size of the file is determined by the duration multiplied by the bitrate used. If you encode the same video to MPEG 1 at 4Mbps and to MPEG 2 at 2Mbps then the MPEG 1 file will be about twice the size of the MPEG 2 file. However, the usual defaults used for these formats are a lower bitrate for MPEG 1 and a higher bitrate for MPEG 2. If you want the MPEG 2 file to be the same size as the MPEG 1 file then select a lower custom bitrate when rendering. Take note however that lowering the bitrate also lowers the quality.
gold wrote on 1/20/2004, 6:32 AM
Many times MPEG1 is 320x240 for vcd, although it can be 640x480 or 720x480. Check your settings, I would think MPEG2 would always be smaller than MPEG1 based on the way the CODECs work.
fosko wrote on 1/20/2004, 7:39 AM
Hmmmm,
So if the fils size is based on the Mbps ( thanks Chein)...then
1) do I have to use Mpeg1 or Mpeg 2 to write DVD. ?
2) what's the difference ?
3) Is the capacity of how much vidoe you can fit determined by the file size or time length of the video (trying to figure out how many episodes I can fit on a disc)
4) any reccomendations on which media to buy ? Right now this is just home use. The burner I orderd is dual format 8x

Thanks a lot !
gold wrote on 1/20/2004, 9:14 AM
MPEG 2 has higher compression due to the addition of intermediate frames based on motion, difference analysis of pre and post frames. Try
<http://www.mpeg.org>
as a starting point for information.
DVD standard is MPEG2 video with PCM or AC3 audio.
Length of files/ number of minutes that a dvd can hold/ is a function of several factors:
length of video
video compression level
audio format
menu structure/motion menus and motion buttons for example
Generally go with AC3 stereo [not 5.1] audio for max compression as PCM audio takes up a lot more space if you want to get as much as possible on dvd
Buy brand name media for best compatibility with standalone dvd systems; e.g., verbatim data life.
johnmeyer wrote on 1/20/2004, 10:35 AM
Is there any advantage to converting to AVI before I burn these shows onto DVD ??

As your question is phrased, the answer is no. However, you can get much better quality by capturing in AVI format (DV, or using the Huffy encoder, etc.) and then converting to MPEG2. Why? Because real-time MPEG2 encoding is not as high quality as non-real time MPEG2 encoding. Also, if you plan to do any editing, you can edit faster (wtih Vegas) using AVI than using MPEG.
gold wrote on 1/20/2004, 10:56 AM
John,
My understanding is that for the "same degree of compression" MPEG2 would deliver better quality video than dv-in that it is a more sophisticated CODEC. Dv25 starts with a poorer quality color representation than mpeg2 so there is more color loss on the front end (mpeg 2 is 4:2:2-of course dv50 would be the same and dv100 superior but I think you are referring to dv25). The best bet is uncompressed video for quality editing then compress to mpeg2 when finished.
Here's another mpeg2 link
http://malik.disa.atd.net/docs/VTC/mpeg_tutorial.pdf
Real time video encoding of mpeg2 at 25 mb/s should be superior to real time dv25, as per my understanding.
Gold