VMS10 Proxy Editing

mcfallison2 wrote on 6/10/2010, 9:35 PM
I looked up proxy editing in the Help section on VMS10 trial version and found the following (I've condensed):

1.Capture or import your high-definition clips.
2.Start a new project.
3.Add your high-definition clips to the timeline.
4.Render your clips to an appropriate proxy format.
5.After rendering is complete, you're ready to start editing on the timeline.
6.If you're working with proxy files and you plan to render to a format that supports high-definition video, replace the proxy clips with the original high-definition clips before rendering your project or printing to tape.

Can anyone help me figure this out? Number 3 is add HD clips to timeline and number 5 is edit clips on timeline? Rendering clips on the timeline does not give you these same clips in Project Media.

Is there a way to render clips in Project Media before adding them to the timeline? Is it possible that my trial version cannot do this?

Comments

Ivan Lietaert wrote on 6/10/2010, 10:01 PM
Forget about that workflow. Use neoscene or mpeg streamclip to batch convert your clips. Edit with those files.
MSmart wrote on 6/10/2010, 10:02 PM
Follow Eugenia's tutorial:

http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/12/12/proxy-editing-with-sony-vegas/

But then again, it's for previous versions, v10 prolly changed the workflow.
Ivan Lietaert wrote on 6/10/2010, 10:05 PM
Eugenia's tuturial is still ok.
guitarsenall wrote on 8/21/2011, 1:57 PM
I am thinking of following Eugenia's tutorial, but I am not sure I can trust SUPER. There are a lot of reports about it containing questionable features, such as statements on the wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SUPER_(software)

Is there a more trustworthy converter that will work with AVCHD? Why is SUPER free?
Steve Grisetti wrote on 8/21/2011, 2:34 PM
Super is great! I've never had any issues with it.
Byron K wrote on 8/22/2011, 1:29 AM
Here's a step by step proxy instructions I used a while back. (;

"proxy" files can be made using a number of other converter softwares like Super, MediaConverter, Format Factory, Squared5.

1st, consolidate all the oringinal footage for a project in one folder we can call it "o" (Original Footage).

Create a proxy file folder in the same location where "o" folder is, we can call it "vwf" (Vegas working folder). Create the smaller proxy files in this folder. Note the proxy file names must match the original file names and convert them to the "vwf" (vegas working folder).

Open Vegas Studio and edit the proxy videos in the "vwf" folder
When you're done editing the proxy files do this:

1. Save the project and close Vegas
2. Change the name of the "vwf" folder to something like "p" (proxy)
3. Change the name of original folder "o" to "vwf"
4. reopen Vegas and render using the original files in the "o" folder.

Note that the "vwf" and original folders must be in the same sub directory for this to work properly.
AlanADale wrote on 8/22/2011, 3:01 AM
And if you prefer to see the technique demonstrated in video form then here's a link to a video tutorial .....
The tutorial is for v11 but it's the same principle for v10
guitarsenall wrote on 8/22/2011, 9:17 PM
Thanks for all the help. But I am still stuck.

I installed Super, watched the video, and I am working through the process. However, Super cannot encode my video files. They are AVCHD (.mts file extension). MediaInfo output is attached below for an example.

The part I don't understand is, both Vegas and Windows Media Player can play these files, so I have to have a codec SOMEWHERE...right?

So, why can't Super encode them? No info on Super's website.

Any tips here?
Thanks again.
Will




General
ID : 0 (0x0)
Complete name : 00095.MTS
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 57.9 MiB
Duration : 39s 960ms
Overall bit rate : 12.1 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 13.7 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 39s 973ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 11.4 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 12.0 Mbps
Width : 1440 pixels
Height : 1080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.245
Stream size : 54.3 MiB (94%)

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : 129
Duration : 40s 64ms
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -67ms
Stream size : 1.22 MiB (2%)

Eugenia wrote on 8/23/2011, 3:08 AM
Vegas uses its own decoder for AVCHD, and WMP uses Microsoft's DX API. SUPER uses open source libraries and not Windows' codecs. It's possible that these OSS libraries don't support your camera's AVCHD files. I know that they do support AVCHD from some cameras though, so you might be just unlucky. Are you running the latest super version btw? Also, switch from ffmpeg to mencoder, or the other way around for the decoder libraries. There are some radio buttons on the app about it.
guitarsenall wrote on 8/23/2011, 8:18 AM
I installed what I thought was the latest version:
SUPER © v2011.build.49 (July 1st, 2011)

I tried switching between ffmpeg and MEncoder and switching "DirectShow Decode" on and off (which I thought would use whatever Vegas and WMP use). The camera is a Canon Vixia HFM30.

If the codec is in question, should I download and install a 3rd-party codec, like ffdshow?

The error behaves like this: The green progress bar fills up, as if it reads the entire file. But, before any output status is indicated, the error occurs. An output file is created, but it is an empty file (zero bytes).
guitarsenall wrote on 8/23/2011, 9:57 AM
OK, I found that ffdshow can decode the file on another machine--a Windows XP machine. So I installed ffdshow (beta 7) here, but it still fails. Detail: I have Windows 7, 64-bit. Do I need a 64-bit version of ffdshow? Something else? Or do I somehow need to tell my machine to USE ffdshow for these files?
Thanks again, but please keep helping. I do not know where to turn.

guitarsenall wrote on 8/23/2011, 8:54 PM
New observation: I Downloaded Media Player Classic (http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli). It plays the file using ffdshow as a decoder. Video is fine, but audio is missing. But Super still gives the same error (with no indication what the problem is).
One question is, if I set the "DirectShow Decode" option, how can I know what Super uses for a decoder?
Please help.
Byron K wrote on 8/24/2011, 1:27 PM
If Super is giving you problems, try one of the other converter programs:
MediaConverter, Format Factory, Squared5.

I prefer Format Factory to convert proxys.

Different converters sometimes work better on certain video formats. You may just have to expierement which one works best w/ your video.

I've found Super to be a tedious to tweak and some of my proxies were in the wrong aspect ratio. Other formats it worked fine. (I don't use Super anymore though, the website is very convoluted and almost like malware imho)
guitarsenall wrote on 8/24/2011, 2:16 PM
Thanks for the tip, Byron. Format Factory looks like the best match out of the three. But it does not explicitly say it can convert AVCHD (H264, .MTS) files.

I am at the point where I am ready to spend money on a converter that really works. Can you or anyone direct me to one? The features I think I need include,
batch conversion with specified output folder
specify output dimensions accurately
specify output frame rate

Thanks again,
Will
Bob Decker wrote on 8/24/2011, 8:59 PM
If you're ready to spend money I'd recommend you go to the Neoscene Cineform website and download a free trial. It will let you specify the target folder for output. You would customize frame size in the Project Properties window in VMS if you need to to so. I used this when I was running VMS 10 and was very happy with the output. With a Core i-7 processor and 6 gig of RAM I was seeing most FX and tranistions in real time or very close to it. It's usually 130.00 but if you go to Videoguys.com you can get it for 99.95. It definitely made editing AVCHD a lot easier. It's pretty fast at converting, depending on your system. Just bear in mind that the Cineform .AVI files will be about 3-5 times bigger than your source, so you need a lot of hard drive space or just delete them when you're finished.
musicvid10 wrote on 8/24/2011, 9:42 PM
As an INTERMEDIATE codec (not proxy), try the free Cineform Studio first. Its external interface is limited, but the codecs should load and work in Vegas.
pierreontheair wrote on 8/25/2011, 2:49 PM
Personnaly, I had lot of problems with Super, struggling to find settings that work (many did not work). The interface is really not easy.
If you are ready to spend some money on a piece of SW, why don't you try latest version of Vegas Studio (11)? I have found that it handles AVCHD much better and the editing is much more fluid. I was about to go the Neoscene way, but with version 11 it was not necessary anymore (and the cost of the upgrade was similar to the cost of Neoscene).
guitarsenall wrote on 8/25/2011, 3:58 PM
Big thanks to Bob, Musicvid, and Pierre for the tips. Intriguing about v11 with AVCHD.
After lots of (painful) research, I found a $40 converter that did the trick admirably with no bugs:
http://www.xilisoft.com/hd-video-converter.html

No size errors; it retains the settings; I can pick the profile by file (run full batch without having to change anything in the middle of it); it uses the GPU as a CPU...

To give you an idea of the challenge, I have 41Gb of footage spread across 67 files in 3 formats (MTS, AVI, and WMV). I know: upgrade to Vegas Pro...

For now, I am back in the game again.
I hope this helps others.
Thanks again to all.
Will