Voice / Mic question

newUzer wrote on 9/17/2006, 9:01 PM
A local music shop was cleaning house, and I recently had the opportunity to snag a new Behringer UB802 for $25. At the time, I had no use for the mixer, but I figured it might come in handy in the future. Well, the future is now, so I decided to pick up a [cheap] Samson QL5 lavelier mic, and the use the UB802 as a preamp. To get the audio into my [cheap] Sony handycam, I wired up a DC blocking 40dB attenuator to put between then the line-out of the UB802 and the mic-in of the camera. It basically works, but I can't help thinking the system isn't 'hot' enough - i.e., it seems like one has to talk much too loud even with the proper mic placement. Granted, I could crank up the mic gain on the UB802, but that only seems to introduce hiss. Cranking the line level and main mix level has a similar effect. Note that my observations are based on using headphones at the mixer - long before the signal ever makes it to the camera. So, I began to wonder. What should someone talking sound like? Loud, crisp, and clear - or is this something that's achieved in post? Not having a gauge, I guess I don't what to expect. Any comments?

Comments

Serena wrote on 9/17/2006, 9:18 PM
Probably an obvious standard, but it should sound like someone talking (ie not an electronic representation). The old Hi-Fi criterion was "does it sound the SAME as the real thing?" Can you tell whether it is a real piano or its reproduced sound? That's still my starting point.

If you missed previous threads Jay Rose and audio you might find them relevant.
DataMeister wrote on 9/17/2006, 9:53 PM
I agree, it should sound clear in the headphones. Of course that assumes a good pair of headphones that aren't malfunctioning, and/or all the wires are good.

VOGuy wrote on 9/17/2006, 10:58 PM
First thing I would check is the 48-V Phantom power supply from the console to the mic. If you're using a mic extension cable, make sure it is wired correctly - and that all connectors, etc. are in good condition.
Grazie wrote on 9/18/2006, 12:45 AM
"A local music shop was cleaning house, and I recently had the opportunity to snag a new Behringer UB802 for $25."

Just to be on the safe side I'd check out with the shop another/alternative mixer before I pulled out the remaining hair I DO have.

farss wrote on 9/18/2006, 3:15 AM
According to the spec sheet for the mic:
http://www.samsontech.com/products/relatedDocs/QL5.pdf
it needs phantom power.
Reading the specs of the mixer, it can supply 48V so all should be well, if you switch it on of course.
What are the level meters doing on the mixer?

Headphones make noise far more noticable than it really is BTW, that's why I use them a lot, if it sounds noise free in the cans, it's really clean.
newUzer wrote on 9/18/2006, 8:15 AM
Grazie

I hear you, but I also have a MX602A - which is a dead ringer for, and preceeded, the 802 - and the same thing happens.
newUzer wrote on 9/18/2006, 8:16 AM
VOGuy

Phantom is good, and three new cables produce the same result.
newUzer wrote on 9/18/2006, 8:29 AM
farss

If I set the mic pre-amp gain pot, line 1 level pot, and master level pot all to 12 o'clock, the level meters on the mixer show about -20dB during slightly above normal speech. That said, I can easily get 0dB by cranking these pots, but MAN, the hiss...
DavidSinger wrote on 9/18/2006, 9:30 AM
That's why they call 'em "hiss-poor" pre-amps.
Move the lav closer to the sound, take advantage of the inverse square principle. Cheapest/best pot in town is to move the mic closer.
newUzer wrote on 9/18/2006, 11:55 AM
DavidSinger

It sounds like what you're saying is that this is may be par for the course - right? Or maybe you'e saying the UB802's mic pre-amps really suck?
farss wrote on 9/18/2006, 1:50 PM
Where are you monitoring at?
I think the mixer has a phone socket, how's it sound there?
After all you're going through TWO stages of mic preamps, the one in the mixer and the one in the camera. I think the one in the camera has AGC which you cannot turn off. So you've got a lot of gain in the system. You might improve matters by having less attenuation between the mixer and the camera.
Also this mic is designed to be close to the sound source, I assume you're using it as a lapel mic?
Bob.
DavidSinger wrote on 9/18/2006, 2:05 PM
Bob has it nailed.
Two (too) many pre-amps, both with "less-than-stellar" signal/noise ratio. The equipment is generating the hiss, and the hiss goes up "geometrically" with the clockwise twist of each knob.

Option a: Get the mic closer to the source (for dark-haired women, you can put it in their hairline directly above the eyes), and turn the knobs down (counter clockwise). Your "sound" will be lower, but your "hiss" will be lower still (relative to the signal). Boost the sound in Vegas on the track with an envelope.

Option b: Get a "hotter" mic (sends more signal).

Option c: (I have to do this frequently with older folks who's voice simply cannot put out significant decibels) Record the dialog twice: once with the real video, again (with the camera still rolling) with a shotgun mic about 4 inches away from the mouth. It takes a bit of fussing in Vegas to sync the second take with the first, but the results make the difference between "Eh, what she say???" and "Wow, she never sounded so good!"

By the way, our Z1Us generate hiss even with Sanken CS1 mics. Anything over "4" on the scale from 1-10 puts hiss in the track. That's why we record sound separately via some really decent devices.

50% of the movie/ad/trailer perceived value is found in sound. Invest likewise.

David