I think people didn't understand my question correctly.

What I'm asking is "Is Sonic Foundry Vegas Video DV codec being used when capturing thru VV 3.0 or is MS DV codec used for capture?". I know that there is a 5:1 compression already done in my camcorder itself and its just a bit by bit copy of the video from my camera to my PC.

But, recently I read in www.abcdv.com, under Premiere section for changing the codec to MainConcept DV codec, it says, installing MainConcept DV codec and selecting Type-2 AVI option in Scenalyzer Live software will use MainConcept DV codec for capturing instead of MS DV codec which is the default capture codec for most of the NLE systems available today. Is Vegas Video doing the same thing or it can be customized to use Sonic Foundry DV codec for capture?

Thanks.

Actually you've just answered your own question with "I know that there is a 5:1 compression already done in my camcorder itself and its just a bit by bit copy of the video from my camera to my PC.". There is NO codec involved at all when capturing through firewire. The video has already been encoded by the camera and this does not get changed when capturing. There is no way to select a codec at this point, nor is there any need to.

The choice of codecs only comes in to play when you render to a new file after you have captured and edited. At this point, Vegas will use the SonicFoundry codec by default.

Chien is correct. The abcdv article is referring to capturing something that is not DV and changing it to DV. Therefore you need a codec, and you have a choice.

However, if coming from your DV camcorder, through firewater, to your PC, there is no need to do ANYTHING.

Once you are IN the computer, and using ANY PART of Vegas, you will get the excellent SoFo Codec, UNLESS you change to something else.

Don't!

when you render out---that's when the VV codec comes into play and the demo version doesn't have it.

Thanks for the replies.

So, you guys are saying that Vegas Video 3.0 uses MS DV codec during capture and not the Sonic Foundry DV codec during capture right?
Thats confusing. If you guys carefully read the abcdv.com article on Premiere with MainConcept, it clearly says that "If I install MainConcept DV codec and select Type-2 option in Scenalyzer Live, the software will be using MainConcept DV codec for capture itself and not the MS DV codec.
Can anybody comment on this?

VS

VS, your question has been answered (correctly) by at least a half dozen people in at least two message threads here in the Vegas forum.

When you transfer DV footage, via Firewire, from a DV (or Digital8) camcorder or deck into the computer to the hard drive, there is ABSOLUTELY NO CODEC INVOLVED WHATSOEVER. The computer is NOT compressing the video in ANY way during capture. (In fact, "capture" probably isn't even the correct term, it would be more accurate to call it, "transfer.") The video was being compressed to DV format by the camcorder while you aimed the camera at your subject and pushed the record button. When you transfer the video, you are just copying the already compressed video (and audio) data, it is really no different than copying a file from a floppy disk to a hard drive.

Conversely, if you were to turn around and transfer that video file, unmodified, from the hard drive back to a tape in the camcorder, there would also be NO codec involved. What you would have is a bit-for-bit, IDENTICAL copy (actually, a clone) of what came off the camcorder in the first place. No decompression/recompression will have taken place at any time during this process. The only codec that was involved at any time was the one used by the camcorder to compress the video and record the resulting data to DV tape during the original recording.

The only time a DV codec is used to compress video in the computer is when you modify the original DV data in some way, like adding a title or adding a transition or filter. The DV data will have to be decompressed, modified and then recompressed. Vegas will do this using the Sonic Foundry DV codec and, as far as the quality of the Sonic Foundry DV codec is concerned, let me say this: I discovered a major colorspace conversion flaw in Pinnacle's DV codec about a year and a half ago and I raised a BIG stink about it. As a result, Pinnacle had to completely rewrite their DV codec. Then, I wondered just how good the rest of the DV codecs were. I went about a very thorough testing of every DV codec I could get my hands on, including the MainConcept DV codec. The Sonic Foundry DV codec is the BEST LOOKING, MOST ACCURATE DV codec I have ever tested. Period.

What you read at abcdv.com about the MainConcept DV codec and Premiere is that, by default, Premiere uses the inferior Microsoft DV codec to render previews and render the finished program to a DV-format .AVI file. The article at abcdv.com describes a method by which you can get Premiere to use the MainConcept DV codec for previews and rendering instead of the Microsoft DV codec. The abcdv.com article describes how to disable a Microsoft file, "qcap.dll", this file contains software code that enables the computer to control the camcorder transport and also write the compressed DV data from the camcorder through the Firewire card and create .AVI files. In addition to performing transfer and camcorder control functions, qcap.dll also enables the Microsoft DV codec, msdv.sys. Disabling qcap.dll allows Premiere to use the MainConcept codec because it effectively removes the Microsoft DV codec from the system, but it also disables the portion of the code that controls the camcorder and performs that data transfer. This is why you must re-enable qcap.dll in order to capture video via Firewire from a camcorder.

Vegas also uses qcap.dll to control the deck and read and write data to and from the camcorder, but Sonic Foundry has implemented a way to use the functions in qcap.dll WITHOUT also enabling the Microsoft DV codec. Therefore, unlike Premiere, Vegas defaults to using its own vastly superior DV codec to do any decompression or compression and the Microsoft DV codec is NOT involved in any way. In other words, you don't have to take any of the steps described in the adcdv.com article in order to use Sonic Foundry's excellent DV codec in Vegas. Sonic Foundry has already taken care of this for you.

Lastly, I have no idea why the adcdv.com article even mentioned Scenalyzer. All the program does is interface with qcap.dll to transfer video back and forth between the camcorder and the computer. A DV codec, Microsoft or otherwise, is never used in Scenalyzer because it never modifies the DV video data in any way. It does use the Microsoft codec to READ the data for its optical scene change recognition, but it NEVER modifies the video data.

My suggestion is to quit obsessing over this abcdv.com article and go edit some video. You can be safe in the knowledge that when you are editing in Vegas, you are using the finest DV codec yet devised by mere mortals.

John

Hi,

Thanks for your detailed reply. The explanations were very good.
Before I'm convinced, I have few more questions on this topic. The
following text is got from the MainConcept/Premiere article from www.abcdv.com:

******************************************************
Under our specific conditions, Scenalizer LIVE has another huge advantage: you can capture to MC-DV directly too with Scenalizer LIVE, all what you have to do is to capture to DV-typ 2 files. If you have installed MC-DV, then your DV files are stored as MC-DV files.

If you capture with Premiere, to must capture to MS-DV, what is no loss in quality - but why not capture to MC-DV if we wish to utilize the better quality of the mainconcept codec?
******************************************************
He says Scenalyzer captures to MainConcept DV codec (MC-DV) if you select Type-2 option and also he is saying although MS-DV has no loss in quality but MC-DV has a better quality for capture. How would it be when capture is just a wrapper to the already compressed video in the camera itself?

Can somebody elaborate?

Thanks.

VS

VS, it's difficult to tell from that small expert without seeing the context, but my guess is that the writer is referring to capturing from NON-DV sources. In this case, the capture software would have to digitize the video as it captures, and then a codec would be involved.

VS, after this message, I'm through with you. You're just never going to get it. Have you ever considered that the article on the abcdv.com web site is WRONG.

Scenalyzer Live does NOT use a DV codec for capturing. It ONLY uses a DV codec to display the video in its preview window and to analyze the video for SCLive's optical scene recognition. Also, it will only capture video via Firewire from DV sources. As long as you're quoting stuff from the Internet, here are two paragraphs DIRECTLY from the Scenalyzer Live FAQ:
-------------------------------
Q: Which codec does ScenalyzerLive use and how can I set the codec?
A: ScenalyzerLive doesn't need to use a codec for capturing or playback. It uses the MS-DV codec for displaying pictures in the program. Your editing-application will normally use the MS-DV codec for type1 files and the currently installed vfw DV codec for type2 files. If for example the mainconcept codec is installed on your system, then type2 DV files are "mainconcept codec files".

Q: What are the system-requirements for ScenalyzerLive?
A: A PC with Windows 98se, ME or 2000 and Directx8. A video capture card that uses DV compression, e.g. OHCI 1394-cards, RT2000, DV200/300/500 or PRO-One (Playback-functionatity currently not supported with Pinnacle Drivers and Canopus DV Storm).
-------------------------------

By the way, despite what you may have read on the Internet, the Earth is round, not flat.

John

I guess it all comes down to what FourCC is being written to AVI file during capture. That's the only place where specific DV codec will be mentioned.

I am not totally sure, but I think codec is part of DirectX graph for capture. In Premiere you can ask it to Recompress. I don't know when it's feasible, would not do it myself. That's why it's usually recommended to turn off Recompress in Premiere unless definitely required.

The FourCC code that gets written for standard DV .AVI files is "dvsd" regardless of whether the Microsoft DV or MainConcept DV codec is used.

John