What about files after creating & burning dvds?

vcalder wrote on 1/30/2009, 11:22 AM

I just started using VMS6 last year and now have upgraded to VMS9. Does anyone have any good tips on which files should be kept and how best to archive files? I know that VMS creates some files that are just pointers to the original video clips. I just don't want to keep any unnecessary files to clutter up the hard drive I use for editing. I set up a pretty good folder system on the hard drive so I'll know where everything is. For example, I have 3 dvd's full of home movies for the year 2008, I have folders named 2008 Disk 1, 2008 Disk 2, 2008 Disk 3. These each contain the source video clips, the .vf files and the mpg2 prerendered files associated with each dvd. Then I have a separate folder called Prepared Files, with subfolders for each dvd (same naming convention) that contain the DVD Architect .dar files used to burn the dvd. I'm just a bit confused as to which files I should keep in case : (1) I need to reburn a dvd or (2) access a part of one of these videos to use in a different project.

Comments

Chienworks wrote on 1/30/2009, 3:28 PM

I always create my folders based on project and put all files associated with that project in that folder. That may be a bit more fine-grained than what you're doing, but i find it very helpful.

Your DVD contains an exact image of the prepared files that DVDA creates. If you feel that you can trust at least one of your burned DVDs to be readable without errors then you can simply make copies of that disc if you need more. There's no need to save the files that DVDA creates. Some folks will build a .iso bundle of the files and burn that to a data DVD as these are apparently less vulnerable to errors than the .vob files are. *shrug* i dunno about that, but i suppose it never hurts to have more backups.

The only reason to save the rendered .mpg and .dar file are if you plan on changing the layout of the DVD, adding different menu screens or backgrounds for example. In these cases you would prepare new .vob files anyway, so that's another reason why there isn't much need to save the prepared files. Generally after i've had a few people look at the finished DVD over the span of a week and caught any spelling errors, there aren't ever any more changes so i delete all that.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "pointers". The .vf file contains pointers to the media file, but there aren't separate pointer files that i can think of. Vegas does create .sfk files containing the audio waveform display, but these are not pointers, and they are very tiny. You can delete them if you want to but Vegas will recreate them the next time you access the associated source file. And since they are very tiny, it's probably not worth the bother of getting rid of them. Save them and save time the next time you work on those files.

If you want to access one of the videos to reuse then keep the source files around. If you already loaded them from some other media then you can load them again. You could save a lot of hard drive space by purging them and going back to the original media if you do need them.

And .... hard drive space is WAY cheap. There are reports of 1 and 1.5TB drives selling in the $100 range now. 1TB stores about 78 hours of DV, or 350 to 400 hours of DVD material.

Himanshu wrote on 1/31/2009, 3:53 PM

vcalder said,
I'm just a bit confused as to which files I should keep in case : (1) I need to reburn a dvd or (2) access a part of one of these videos to use in a different project.

(1) If you keep the prepared DVD images (upto 4.7GB for standard DVDs) you can burn them again any time, without any additional render time. Keep in mind this is useful only if you will not make any modification to the prepared image. I keep images for some of my DVDs, but they are always on an external drive - it's not like I need them everyday.

(2) If you are going to use part of the edited video in different project, you will typically have to have rendered it separately, otherwise you will not be able to use it in a different project. If you haven't rendered it separately, you will probably end up reverting to the source video.

What I do: capturing from tape is time consuming so I keep the source video on hard drive(s). Other than that, I keep rendered files on internal drives and delete them when I run out of space. Finally I save prepared disc images on external drives till I think I won't need them any more. Goes without saying I never delete any VF (VEG) or DAR files.

GBR wrote on 2/1/2009, 9:33 PM

A contrary view, for what it's worth.
Don't keep anything, delete it all.
After you have put in the hard work of editing and creating your DVD you will almost certainly find parts of the video that could have been done differently or better. And that means there will be considerable temptation to go back and repeat the whole process.
There are better things in life than doing that.
Even if your videos are of a particularly great holiday or other great occasions or memories just delete the lot.
When the time arises that you think you should have kept the source, just go on another holiday or whatever and shoot the sequel!
Regards,
GBR

vcalder wrote on 2/2/2009, 9:51 AM

This is in reply to the posts by Chienworks, GBR & Himanshu on this subject. I appreciate each of your opinions on this. Maybe I should clarify my reasons for the questions, so as to focus the discussion better. I had two objectives: (1) to better understand how the Vegas file system works and (2) how best to save the files I really need without keeping a bunch of stuff on a hard drive that I may never need again.
(1) I understand that Vegas will have .avi files from captured media (assuming I've chosen that file format). Then it creates the .vf project files. Then if I prerender before going to DVDA, I'll have .mpg2 files. It appears only the mpg2 files are large (GB range), so those are the ones I guess I need to manage more closely. One of you mentioned .vob files. I haven't noticed any of those. What are they? Anyway, when I prepare the files for the dvd, I end up with Audio_TS and Video_TS folders. The Audio_TS folder appears to be empty, while the Video_TS folder has files totaling about 3 GB (for an approx. 45-50 minute video). Finally, most of my stuff is being captured from a camcorder using mini-DV tapes and I want to reuse the tapes.
(2) This brings me to the main question about what to keep. All of your comments make alot of sense concerning the finished product. The only other question I have is that if for some reason I need to make a copy of only a portion of a video that I've put on a dvd, how is the best way to accomplish that? In other words which files would I have to keep to facilitate this? I realize that if I keep the source clips that I captured from the tapes, I can recreate a video from part of it as a new project. However, I was hoping for a simpler process whereby I can pick the right file type, maybe the MPEG file, save the part of it I want as a different file name and re-render it? I hope I'm making sense here. Sorry that I'm probably rambling.

Ivan Lietaert wrote on 2/2/2009, 10:51 AM

1) Minidvs are cheap. Do not re-use them, but store them safely. The are the ideal way of archiving your master video.
2) VOB files are mpg2 files on a dvd
3) mpg2 is a lossy file. Compared to your captured dv-avi, which is lossless, mpg2s are much lower quality
4) Here is my personal solution: I render a project twice. First to the mpg2 format and then burn it to dvd, and a second time to a HD format wmv (720p template) for storage on my pc/usb drive or stick.
I then delete the captured files and the mpeg2 files, BUT KEEP THE MINIDV cassette as a safety archive, and of course always keep the wmv hd file on the pc. If ever the dvd gets scratched, I can always recreate one using the wmv hd file. I also delete the directory that DVDA has 'prepared'.

vcalder wrote on 2/2/2009, 2:08 PM

Thanks for the tips. I like your personal solution (4), but I don't see an option in my version VMS9 under "render as" for this wmv (720p template). It just have regular wmv. Is that because you are using the platinum version that supports HD?

I really hate to keep buying mini-DV tapes when I have about 8-10 I can reuse for filming my videos. Besides that, I would have to recreate everything again. That is why I was trying to find out which files to keep for a completed video that I've burned to dvd in case I need to recreate a dvd or go find just a piece of video from a completed project .

Ivan Lietaert wrote on 2/2/2009, 9:17 PM

1) If you bought vms9 very recently, in the past two weeks, I'd advise to upgrade to platinum. Contact Vegas marketing. They'll make you an offer, I think.
2) If you keep your project and later on you re-capture your video, Vegas will recognize the captures and put them in the project again.
3) Are you aware of the following: when you 'save as' a project, Vegas has the option to save with it the trimmed footage you used in your project. You can 'tick' this option in the bottom left of the 'save as' window.

vcalder wrote on 2/3/2009, 12:32 PM

Thanks for the tip about Sony offering a good deal to upgrade. I contacted them and they said they could offer 20% off the web-listed prices for either the downloaded or packaged versions of Platinum. That sounds like a good deal to me.
By the way, when you mentioned before that you render a HD version of your video projects (wmv, in 720p) about what size of file does that yield for approximately 1 hour of video as compared to the MPEG files that are in the 3 GB range?