what is Cineform?

auggybendoggy wrote on 9/2/2006, 12:42 PM

I'm a totally newbie to VV and i've done a few projects.

Unlike most of you pros out there you talk 1080i 60i 24p and it's all chinese to me.

I've been reading these posts by some users of 4:2:2 and things like that for cineform and after reading their website I'm more confused then when I didn't read their web site :(

Can someone bring this to plain english for some of us.

I do realize it has to do with HD editing.

But from my understanding since v5 wont VV render in 1080-60i?
so why would I need cineform?

Auggybendoggy

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 9/2/2006, 1:01 PM

HDV uses a file format called "MPEG."
MPEG is a highly compressed, Interframe format (meaning all the frame information isn't in each and every frame) that is difficult for theCPU to decode in real-time. Therefore, unless the NLE is optimized for editing MPEG, and even if it is, playback is often jerky and not full framerate.

CineForm's utility/codec converts the m2t file into a 2GOP frame using I and P frames only, allowing the decode to go much more smoothly, and provides a very efficient compression scheme so that the CPU doesn't have to work as hard to decode the pictures/frames. This makes for a much more pleasing editing experience.
As far as 4:2:2, technically this isn't a correct summation of color sampling in HD, but we'll stick with that designation.
MPEG samples color at a sample of 4:2:0. Converting this to 4:2:2 immediately on capture provides some chroma smoothing benefits as well as a more robust color sample for keying and color correction, plus the "new" mpeg format that CineForm creates is also more suited for recompression due to the lack of B and P frames, also known as DCT frames.

In short, it's not a good idea to recompress MPEG at any stage.
It's not a good idea to key on MPEG media
It's not always the best result color correcting MPEG media
The DI/HDI (Digital Intermediary/High Definition Intermediary) makes all of the above issues go away and makes for a better editing experience.
Hopefully this helps?
FWIW, this is explained more in-depth in my "HDV: What You NEED to Know" book.

auggybendoggy wrote on 9/2/2006, 4:56 PM

wow thats an awsome epxplanation.

Thank you DSE. Yea it sounds like its something I want.

So will v7 have cineform or is it just cineform ready?

Auggy

fldave wrote on 9/2/2006, 5:25 PM

Cineform codec (not the latest codec) is built into V6 (can't remember if in V5).

With HD project, select File \ Render As \ select Windows AVI \ under Template, select HDV 1080xxxx intermediate (where xxxx is the -60i or -50i).

Cineform also makes a stand-alone program called Connect HD that has better capture options, and can also make the intermediate on the initial capture.

Spot: are you saying that using Connect HD to immediately capture as an intermediate creates better color intermediates than placing the m2t on the timeline and creating the intermediate after capture?

Spot|DSE wrote on 9/2/2006, 5:29 PM

Spot: are you saying that using Connect HD to immediately capture as an intermediate creates better color intermediates than placing the m2t on the timeline and creating the intermediate after capture?

Not at all saying that. If that is intimated, then I didn't provide an appropriate explanation. Converting during or after capture produces the same end result. It's only faster if you use the CineForm ConnectHD tool.
I mentioned the time of converting only as a means of conveying that you don't want to process the m2t file and then convert.
For Vegas 5 users, it's a good idea to process the file first, only because of color space issues, but that issue is completely negated in V6.

fldave wrote on 9/2/2006, 5:40 PM

"Converting this to 4:2:2 immediately on capture provides..."

Just the way I read this I thought there may be a difference between using the Cineform tool and what's built into Vegas.

Note that you can also upgrade to the latest version of the codec, thanks to Cineform, by installing the Connect HD trial.

Laurence wrote on 9/2/2006, 10:02 PM

I would recommend installing the ConnectHD trial in order to get the new codec. It's quite a bit more efficient. My P5 3.06 chokes on the old codec but handles the new codec just beautifully.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 9/3/2006, 2:55 AM

Well, recent render tests has shown me that the re-rendering of m2t to m2t must not end up with a poore quality always.

For simple cuts, fades it will be possible to work with native m2t cutting and render from original footage to the final product directly. For compositing purposes it will be better to use intermediate codecs also in future for sure.

However, that will be an ongoing discussion in the next month, I am sure.