What is this error??

blink3times wrote on 4/4/2008, 4:33 PM
I'm playing with some different codec and such in an attempt to come up with a new work flow.

I'm capturing from the HC3 with cineform intermediate (high quality setting) which works out fine. I throw it on the time line and try to render as uncompressed avi at 1920x1080
I keep getting the folowing render error about a minute into the render:

"The file being rendered has exceeded the maximum size allowed for the selected format"

Anybody know what that means??

Comments

Laurence wrote on 4/4/2008, 4:40 PM
The built in support for the free version of the Cineform codec that comes with Vegas tops out at 1440 x 1080 x 8 bits at medium quality.

John_Cline wrote on 4/4/2008, 4:57 PM
A truly uncompressed .AVI is about as generic as it gets. The only restriction one might encounter is rendering to a drive which has been formatted as FAT32, most external drives come formatted as FAT32. No single file can be over 4-gig on a FAT32 drive, filesize on an NTFS drive is virtually unlimited. Otherwise, I can't think of any other reason you would run into a filesize issue. I regularly generate uncompressed HD files in the 500 to 1000 gigabyte range.
blink3times wrote on 4/4/2008, 5:08 PM
Thanls, but the drive is 500gigs, ntfs, and empty so it can't be that. It doesn't seem related to the drive at all though... th error I keep getting is aimed at ".......the format selected"..... what ever that means.

Not sure if it's the "free" version of cineform.... it's their trial download I'm using and they claim it's a full working trial.
blink3times wrote on 4/4/2008, 5:30 PM
I think I *MAY* have figured it out.

It appears to have something to do with the

"interleave every (seconds)" switch or the

"Create open DML" switch.

When I leave them in the default position (checked) I don't get the error.
blink3times wrote on 4/4/2008, 5:47 PM
Laurence...

This may interest you.

Vegas isn't doing that well with M2T these days and the avchd tops out in Vegas at a lowly 15M, so I'm scrounging for a new workflow

I'm now capturing with NeoHD (set on high), editing end exporting as separate video/audio... uncompressed avi and AC3. This is imported to MF6 and put together as a avchd disk at 17M (1920x1080) It's a long go but the quality is pretty good.

The only problem I have run into is that for some reason MF6 sees uncompressed avi at 1440 as 4:3 so I have to up it to 1920 to get it seen as 16:9
rmack350 wrote on 4/4/2008, 6:21 PM
On the AVI front, were you ever able to figure out whether that meant the size on disk or if it meant pixel dimensions? Since you say it happens after a minute of rendering I assume the problem is in MBytes.

AVI Type 1 or AVI type 2?

Rob
blink3times wrote on 4/4/2008, 7:08 PM
I'm not sure at all what "size" they're talking about. I ASSUME they're talking pixel dimension because I can't think of anything else.

I'm not sure which avi type it is. It's the uncompressed verion within Vegas that I'm using. I would guess it to be type 2 since the "open DML" switch that I was playing with is also labeled; "AVI version 2"
Laurence wrote on 4/4/2008, 7:37 PM
The only problem I have run into is that for some reason MF6 sees uncompressed avi at 1440 as 4:3 so I have to up it to 1920 to get it seen as 16:9

I do 1440 AVCHD discs with no problem using the same software. Are you sure you have 1440 x 1080 selected as the project dimensions? If you import 1440 x 1080 footage into a 1920 x 1080 project it will look 4:3.
John_Cline wrote on 4/4/2008, 8:30 PM
Ahhh, it was the "Open DML" switch. Originally, .AVI files were limited to 2 gig. Matrox developed the "Open DML" AVI version which allows AVI files of unlimited size. Open DML is also referred to as "AVI Version 2" although this has nothing to do with AVI Type-1 and Type-2, which is something else altogether. (For what it's worth, Vegas only supports AVI Type-2.)
blink3times wrote on 4/4/2008, 8:46 PM
"Are you sure you have 1440 x 1080 selected as the project dimensions? If you import 1440 x 1080 footage into a 1920 x 1080 project it will look 4:3."

Yes, I checked that. Everything was set for 1440 and it still comes out as a 4:3 box in a 16:9 frame (in other words black bars on the sides)

I also seem to be having a problem with the AC3. MF6 seems to be downmixing it to stereo when you import it as a "music track" As a test I exported AC3 to mf6 and created a dvd with 5.1 sound by importing the AC3 to the music track. I then imported it back into vegas and sure enough the front L and R tracks were there but all other tracks were blank. It's clear that you can't import AC3 to mf6 through its other tracks (music and vocal tracks). Unfortunately, I don't know how else I would import it. Any ideas??
PeterWright wrote on 4/4/2008, 8:54 PM
Have you checked the PAR setting - right click on clip in timeline / Properties / Media / Pixel aspect ratio - if it's 1.00, try changing to 1.33
blink3times wrote on 4/5/2008, 12:43 AM
"Have you checked the PAR setting - right click on clip in timeline / Properties / Media / Pixel aspect ratio - if it's 1.00, try changing to 1.33"

Yes.

If I import 1440x1080, (pixels 1.333) uncompressed avi into MF6, it comes out a squished picture in a 4:3 ratio.

The moderator on the Ulead site said that I have to use square pixels (in other words 1920x1080). He didn't offer an explanation... but it does work.

1920x1080 (pixels 1.000) comes out properly as 16:9

I still can't figure out how to import the AC3 though. It's too bad because uncompressed avi and a bitrate of 17000 gives the end result of a good quality avchd disk

Tomorrow I'll give Pinnacle studio a try. Pinnacle will habdle uncompressed and it will output avchd at 17000. It won't allow a AC3 import but it will output it. So if I export my ac3 as 6 wav files it SHOULD all import to studio.
craftech wrote on 4/5/2008, 7:16 AM
Have you tried "muxing" the audio and video first using a program like SmartLabs tsMuxeR first before importing it into MF6 Plus?

John
Terje wrote on 4/5/2008, 8:51 AM
avchd tops out in Vegas at a lowly 15M

Topping AVCHD out at 15M makes a little bit of sense given the bitrate you can expect from a DVD-R, but that doesn't mean that rendering from Vegas is not a good option. I render from Vegas at higher bitrates to AVC and then use MF to create the disk, making sure that MF doesn't re-encode the video. Works for me.

Admittedly I haven't tried it in a while on a DVD-R, but I can't see why it shouldn't work still. As far as I can remember I was somewhere around 17M or so, which is where MF will start re-encoding no matter what.
blink3times wrote on 4/5/2008, 9:50 AM
"Have you tried "muxing" the audio and video first using a program like SmartLabs tsMuxeR first before importing it into MF6 Plus?"

Tried that last night.... I don't know.... maybe I wasn't using it right.... but I got nothing but instability in using it. My M2TS (with no audio) imported fine to ulead before I used TS but would do nothing but crash ulead after a muxing job.
blink3times wrote on 4/5/2008, 12:45 PM
Well... it's quite clear that avchd is better at 17000 than at 15000, but it's A LOT of work getting that extra bit of quality out. Vegas max's out at 15000 but both Pinnacle and Ulead can get to 17000 (ulead CAN also import ac3 through it's music track...... I had a setting wrong)

But the whole thing require re encoding twice hence the need for rendering uncompressed avi for the second render (no... or at least minimum loss). Both programs have their pros/cons but they both do a good job.. It's pretty close but I think I would have to give the quality edge to pinnacle. Pinnacle will accept uncompressed avi at 1440 (with elongated pixels at 1.333) whereas Ulead won't. It for some reason needs a square pixel with uncompressed avi or it won't display at 16:9, so you're forced to up the video to 1920x1080 for a proper 16:9 view.

Pinnacle on the other hand will output AC3 but it won't import it as one file so you have to import it as 6 wav files and then set up your audio tracks.

Render times are LLLLOOOOONNNNGGG compared to just simply editing M2T and exporting to ulead as M2TS. but the end result IS a better quality video than using Vegas's blu ray template.... I however am not all that sure I'm willing to go this length on any kind of routine though.

One side note on HD DVD (3x dvd) conversion over to blu ray for those interested. If you have vista and/or nero8 you can read and copy EVO files from the disk to your hardrive. Just change the EVO extensions to M2T and import to Ulead, join them together with the "join" switch and make your avchd disk. It works well with Ulead but seems to be hit and miss with Vegas. Vegas seems to be able to read one of these changed files about 70% or the time.