What makes a VEG file large?

Grazie wrote on 7/25/2009, 9:53 PM
This is NOT about saving space on drives. It is purely an early question as to finding out what is happening with one particular project that "hangs" on openning. And when I say hang, I mean t loads and the cursor flashes 4 or 5 times then it's locked-up

I have a project: Sorc003a.veg

The letter = "a" refers to the version/s of that project

OK . . .

In its early phases it is about 262kb it has now "bloomed" up to 1.1MB. What makes a VEG file bloat?

I have other projects that are quite a bit more complex and more so than this 1.1MB, that trundle along at 100kb to 200kb - and they are no problem at all. But this puppy, the 1.1MB veg, hangs on openning, and I have to resort/return to its AutoSave (Edward Troxel) utility to get through the "hang". The AutoSave opens and plays, but its original VEG will not. And the ONLY thing, at this stage, that I am noticing is this unseen VEG file size.

I maybe completely wrong on with my approach with respect to a solution for a de-hang, on this Sorc001a (now up to Sorc005a), but just WHAT makes a VEG file bloat-up? And could this be the reason why it hangs?

As it happens I have veggies that are far more complex and do not hang and I DON'T need to resort/return to the AutoSave version - yet!

TIA

Grazie

Comments

PeterWright wrote on 7/26/2009, 12:04 AM
Interesting question Grazie

I've just looked at a project I've had going for many months - the first .veg was about 220 kb, and it has, gradually, through maybe 200 updates, grown to 974kb.

No sudden 'bloom' in size - I assume the gradual growth is down to using more generated media and other included resources as the project itself grows.
Grazie wrote on 7/26/2009, 12:24 AM
Thanks Peter.

This is very odd. All I've done is to add a few, maybe 10 bits of Media - not GenMEd - edited and AutoSaved. And it has grown from 200kb up to 1.1mb? Now, that HAS to be fierce?

And as I said, the ONLY way to get this project to play is to use the AutoSave backup. I have never ever had to do this for a "hung" project which was previously trundling along nicely?

The project consists of 5 tracks: 2 tracks of video & 3 tracks of audio ( and one of them is empty!). I have used the "Remove all unused media from project" lightening bolt too.

So, what I have done is use the AutoSave version and renamed it to correspond to the original series project development.

Grazie
Chienworks wrote on 7/26/2009, 5:00 AM
I would think one thing that would add immensely to a .veg size is envelope automation. Every control point on an envelope adds a new record to the file. Automation lets you add hundreds of control points in a few seconds.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 7/26/2009, 5:06 AM
lots of anything that's built in to vegas: generated media, envelopes, keyframes, etc.

IE these videos:

the first & last veg's are ~240k. The middle one is ~90. lots more keyframes, changes, etc. in the first & last.

this video:

only 16k veg file. Relatively little keyframes, almost everything is interpolation of frames between keyframes.
Harold Brown wrote on 7/26/2009, 10:15 AM
The project that I am working on that is sluggish and reported to Sony has a 6meg veg file.
Grazie wrote on 7/26/2009, 10:20 AM
Thanks Harold. - G
gwailo wrote on 7/26/2009, 10:24 AM
I think the VEG file simply gets larger as the EDL gets larger.

for example, If there are lots of clips / envelope automation.

My audio-post veg files on a 45 min drama are typically between 1 to 3 Mb

I don't use any generated media in these projects, but I do have over 2000 clips.
LarryP wrote on 7/26/2009, 7:45 PM
Maybe the XML would give a hint.

Tools -> Scripting -> Export XML

Larry
Grazie wrote on 7/26/2009, 10:07 PM
Larry, followed your instructions. Now what? What do I look for? I have it open as a spreadsheet, and I can see 8,000 lines of code.

TIA

Grazie
apit34356 wrote on 7/27/2009, 12:25 AM
Grazie, I think there are many possible causes, BUT I would check to see if your media lib has been loaded into the working "Project Media". ;-)
Grazie wrote on 7/27/2009, 12:51 AM
Please explain? I know Media Manager and I know Project Media, and I know I have media libraries as part of Media Manager. How would and why would I load a media lib into Project Media?

TIA

Grazie
apit34356 wrote on 7/27/2009, 1:20 AM
Grazie, I'm only guessing, but I know you use media manager; I'm just assuming that a copy of the desired media accidentally loaded additional files linked thru meta data descriptions into the Project Media file. Simply look at the XML file for file descriptions, does the number of files match the number you think it should?

There are many other possibilities, file media with markers....... or massive text, where there is embedded control characters that expand incorrectly,etc.... nested vegs, etc Sorry that I don't have the absolute solution but a couple of pints just might fire up the old thingy cells......

farss wrote on 7/27/2009, 1:29 AM
" I have it open as a spreadsheet, and I can see 8,000 lines of code."

It's not code although it looks like it, XML is human readable.
I know 8,000 lines of it is daunting. It seems way over the top for a simple project. Try to see what's in there, it should hold the clue to your problem.

Bob.
Grazie wrote on 7/27/2009, 3:19 AM
"It's not code although it looks like it, " . .yeah o . . .k . . ..

"XML is human readable." And I am.

"I know 8,000 lines of it is daunting." Not really.

"It seems way over the top for a simple project." Does it? I'm starting from a position of low=zero knowledge sop how should I know?

"Try to see what's in there, " I can SEE what's in there - BOB - now tell me what I should be looking for!

" . . it should hold the clue to your problem" Which maybe what - exactly?!??!

Y'know, you've told me that although it's not code, which it looks like, I can read it and what I can "see" without telling me WHAT to be "looking" for.

Wanna try again?

Grazie

farss wrote on 7/27/2009, 5:55 AM
You can open an XML file with Internet Explorer.

To test apit's theory look for

<MediaPool Count="XX">
That'll tell you how many media items are in the media pool.
Following that are the list of files, locations etc for all the media in the pool. Is it anything like you expect?

Then look for
<Tracks Count="XX">

Then you'll see what's on each track, does that make any sense relative to your project?

Note that in IE there's a "-" sign next to the tag for a section, click that to collapse it, makes looking at it easier.

Bob.

Former user wrote on 7/27/2009, 6:17 AM
I've found that some applications store "undo" and other temp information in the project files. Also, since some file storage schemes use a database structure, when there are many additions and deletions from a project the db can get really bloated due to a bunch of "deleted" table blocks.

A quick test for this is to do a "save as" and see if the resulting file is smaller.
LarryP wrote on 7/27/2009, 5:04 PM
Grazie,

Looking at XML is made easier with an XML aware editor. Grab a copy of Notepad++ (a nice free editor) from:
http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm
and open the .xml file.

In Notepad++ goto View->Fold All

You should have 2 lines on the screen. Click on the + in a box on the left and it will expand out the first level. Again click the + next to "<Project>" and you will have your top level project objects.

The line numbers on the left will give you some idea of which objects are largest. In my veg file there were 9000+ lines of <Tracks> fairly equally divided between 9 tracks.

Expanding one of the tracks gives a header followed by a number of <VideoEvent> objects which in turn contain <Takes>, <FadeIn>, <FadeOut>, <Envelopes> and <VideoMotion>. These look to be close to the objects defined in the API.

With the line numbers or the "Count" entries i.e. <Events Count="43"> you can get an idea where all the space is going. In my test .veg it was all in the events and a few audio envelopes.

Seems like it much like looking at a bill from the grocery store. There aren't many expensive items but it all adds up.

Hope this makes some sense.

Larry
apit34356 wrote on 7/27/2009, 10:47 PM
LarryP, excellent app recommendation! I should have pointed that out about notepad+++ when Farss suggested XML inspection to Grazie, which was a clearer explanation to Grazie how to check the veg data.
Grazie wrote on 7/27/2009, 11:32 PM
Ah! Great feedback Larry! THANK YOU!

Well, and here's the rub, I can't actually open this errant VEG to MAKE an export? - Is there a way to "view" the veg itself?

At l;east I have/had the AutoSave (Edward Troxel) version to view and work on.

Having said all this, yesterday I was working on another project - new VEGGIE - and while futzing with Track Motion keying I got the self same locking up. This is a project solely made from JPEG stills, CineScore and some Sony SFXs. Really very tiny project that in VP6 - 7 or 8 would be just grist to the Mill.

Hmmmm.... ?

Grazie

farss wrote on 7/28/2009, 12:11 AM
"Well, and here's the rub, I can't actually open this errant VEG to MAKE an export? - Is there a way to "view" the veg itself?"

No. It's a packed binary format the name of which was mentioned once by an SCS bod. I doubt you'd find a reader that can decode it into human readable form.

There is aatranslator however it may well also spit the dummy if there's something wrong with the project file plus it's USD39 which although it's a bargaing if you actually needed it but to just find a clue to what went wrong without actually fixing it, it would be hard to justify spending the money.

Bob.