I'm intentionally saving the captured clips and the VV4 project file so that if I ever want to go back and change something I can. If I ever want a .avi file of the completed movie...I can render one using the files on the backup disk. So I've saved the capability of rendering a .avi file of the finished movie...but not a .avi file of the movie.

If I deleted ALL .avi files that would mean deleting the original captured clips. If I did that, I'm stuck with just the mgeg2 file of the movie...and no way to make a change or to get a .avi file of the movie (if i wanted one for some reason...to play on my computer, perhaps?) without recapturing clips from the tape.

That is correct. You wouldn't delete the AVI files until you were SURE there were no more changes.

Two main schools of thought...

If you think that anytime in the future you may include scenes NOT presently in your finished project you should of course save your source files and VEG files.

On the other hand you're SURE and I mean absolutely beyond a shadow of doubt you'll never want to add anything in the source files but not in the rendered project you can dump everything but the rendered file. Since it is in DV format if you later make minor adjustments to it no real loss in quality.

As far a backup, remember Murphy's Law, something can and always does go wrong with your most precious files, rarely the ones you don't care that much about. So no matter how you save them be smart and make at least another copy. It also makes sense to save in different formats. Personally for all finished projects I keep a copy of the final render on DV tape, burn a copy to DVD and just to be sure... keep a copy on a hard drive. That of course may be excessive for some projects. Again, depends how much effort and time you put into them.

I think i want to save the captured clips and the veg files so that I can go back and do things like a) correct a misspelled title, b) take out a clip that offended someone, c) replace one song with another. If I only saved a rendered file, I wouldn't be able to do any of these....(the music and orignal sound are now impossible to untangle? the title is inserted over a background clip?)

SO...if I only save the rendered .avi file, It would not be easy to make some of the changes I've mentioned...i'd probably have to start all over again.

PLUS...if I'm always going to watch the result using a dvd player, I never need a .avi file of the completed movie to begin with. I suppose the rendered .avi file would take up less space that the captured clips...but that's why I captured scenes as clips and deleted all those that didn't make it into the final movie. That way, the size of the total of the suriviving clips isn't that much more than the rendered .avi file.

imho (and very humble it is with this group of talent)

I would not want to compromise the resolution of the .avi footage (as it is the same as your source). While mpeg2 is great it is still not the best video resolution when compared to .avi.

I agree. we'd rather save .avi files than .mpeg2 because the later are compressed and the former are not.

So I could save the .avi file of the completed movie OR the Vegas project file (and the source .avi files) that created the .avi file of the completed movie. I think I will save the later and not the former. With the later, I can always recreate the .avi file of the completed movie. And with the later...I can make changes to almost anything. (With just the .avi file, I'd never be able to reposition a title or untangle a song added on top of source audio). The project file and the source .avi clips may take up a little more space....but the ability to make changes more than makes up for that extra space, i think.

So....I've convinced myself I don't need to save the .avi file for the completed movie. I think i've even convinced myself I never have to even CREATE the .avi file. I'll be watch mpeg2 files and making future changes using the vegas project files and the source .avi files.

the key to making this work is using automatic scene detection when I capture the orginal videos. That way I get lots of small clips. The ones that don't make it in the final movie get deleted. I only store the ones that make it into the final movie. If the project file and the surviving source clips fit on one dvd...I save them all on one back up dvd..

Billy Boy,

If my final movie contains a song merged with the original audio on the source clips, there'd be no way to untangle that song in order to do some editing to the .avi file of the completed movie. Right?

So if I only save the completed .avi file......I'm limited as to the changes I can make.

But if I save the veg file and the source clips....I can change ANYTHING. About the only thing I can't do is add scenes from clips not contirbuting to the final movie.

So....I've pretty much convinced myself I don't need to save or even create a .avi file of the completed movie. It was difficult to get used to that idea....but I think I'm right...

Different strokes, for different folks...

It really wasn't in the scope of the original question but what I frequently do after I'm done with a project is make a quick render of any music I like and keep SEPERATELY as either a WAV or MP3 file. For example I have a folder with over 300 songs.That way I can use the music unmerged into other tracks over and over again. The same method could be applied to short video clips you may use in different projects.

To my way of thinking what is the point of slaving over a project only to also keep the original source files besides the finished project? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of editing in the first place? Maybe I'm more decisive then some. When I'm doing a project I make decisions of what I want to keep and what I'll never need again. Nope, I've never lost sleep over dumping some scenes. You can play the what if game to the nth degree. Those that do, in my opinion aren't very good editors since it seems they can never be decisive and becuase of it generally are too gentle in their editing resulting in what I term mushy editing. Others may have different views. It really boils down to how decisive are you?

I should qualitfy what I said to say it depends on if you're working on a personal project or doing work for a client. For clients, afterall it is their video, so getting rid of even a few seconds worth would be bad business. I was aiming my comments more at casual or personal use.

if i just saved the XXX.AVI file, and later on aunt edna says "I hate that scene of me...please get it out of there," I could use VV to delete the offending scene. I could even find the original song file and add it in again.

BUT. right before the offending scene I have a scene that has some people talking AND has the song in it. (in my original project, I often keep the original audio going along with an added song). I don't know of anyway to strip out the song from the XXX.avi file keeping the people talking. Aren't they now both together in the audio track of the XXX.avi file?

BUT if my backup disk contains the veg file and all the short source clips used by the project, I can easily load up the veg file, delete the offending scene, and put the music whereever I want to, and render a revised mpegw or XXX.avi.

It seems that 'pfeferp' is one of those people that asks for advice, more to confirm his own views then argues, well I want to do X, Y, Z, which makes me wonder why he asked for advice in the first place if he's already made up his mind his way is the only way.

Look, the best advice I can give you is DO WHAT YOU WANT!

If you are making a DVD for your anunt Edna, it would seem logical to invite her over and see your project prior to you burning it to a DVD. You problem sir is clearly you can't make up your mind. People that play the endless games of should I or shouldn't in my opinion make lousy editors, becasue no matter what they do, they keep second guessing what they've done.

If you have multiple audio tracks in a project the time to make a wav or MP3 of the music track is while you're still in the editing stage in Vegas. If the music is already part of some audio track with background noise or people talking then you would be hard pressed to remove it regardless at what point you're at.

I would suggest you buy some beginner how-to video editing book. Your comments suggest you are nowhere near ready to burn a finished DVD since you still can't make up your mind what should or shouldn't be in your edited project.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes. Its the best way to learn. Until you are more confidant in your own decission making abilites keep everything so if you make a major mistake you can fix it. With experience you'll learn what you can keep and throw away. That is assuming you can get to some point when you aren't going to second guess everything you do. The biggest mistake in not learning less is more. Nothing is more boring than watching someone's two hour vaction video. Your family and friends may not tell you the truth because they don't want to hurt your feelings. I don't know you, so I just did. If you shot three hours and you got it in your mind there's two hours of good video worth keeping either your the next yet undiscovered James Cameron or you're just kidding yourself. On the other hard if you chop your three hours down to 40 minutues or an hour it probably will look a lot better.

billyboy,

i think i'm with you totally on everything you've said. i think i know that less is more. i've taken probably 12 HOURS of high school sports footage for a season down to a 12 minute highlight film....that knocked everyone's socks off....and still know that it could be shorter.

The only point where i protest (a little) is that I see two choices of what to save:

1) the XXX.avi file
2) the VEG file and the source files used to render the XXX.avi file

It seems that 2) dominates 1) in terms of ability to make future changes. I think it is clear, I can use 2) to create 1).

I see two disadvantages of 2). It will take up more space. It will mean I can go back and continue editing.

This last point is a little tongue in cheek. The advantage of 2) is its flexibility in making future changes. But then, as others have noted, one is tempted to continue to fine tune the project and never call it finished.

Of course I'll do what I want to do. To help with my choice, I would like to know if there is some way to "strip out" just an added music file from my XXXX.avi file and leave whatever other audio track is there along with the music? Because I don't know how to do this (or because it's not possible to do this), then I think 2) gives me the option of making future changes that can't be made with 1). (with 1. i don't know how to remove only the music track. i also don't know how to remove or edit a superimposed title, for another example).

To borrow from Bill Clinton, it depends on what "is", is.

What is your XXX.avi file, the finished project or something else?

If its the finished project you're really talking about keeping three files if you ever want to make wholesale changes.

1. the original source(s) files
2. the final Veg file for your project
3. the rendered result of 1 using 2.

If you don't keep 1 and 2 you can't make a totally different version of 3 because all the Veg file is, is a bunch of notes for Vegas to do whatever it did to get to #3. It doesn't include any actual video information, only what you did to the video in the editing process. Vegas never changes the source files directly. You can not use #2 alone to get back to one.

The point I'm trying to make is sure keep 1+2 if you ever think you need to make revisions you've editied out of #3. If on the other hand #3 is your final rendering and you never plan on trying to resurrect something you edited out there is no reason to keep 1 and 2 any longer.

As far as stripping out music or any other portion of the video or audio that of course assumes what we're talking about is on seperate tracks and you're still in the middle of the editing process in Vegas. Once you render regardless if you one or twenty audio track they do indeed become merged making it very difficult without special tools to seperate again.

For example assume a project with several audio tracks. One audio track is from your source file, two others you added during the editing process. If you want to render only the audio of the music track you don't really strip anything out as you put it, simply mute any other audio tracks, and then render the music background audio track as a wav or MP3. Your project will remain whole, but you can gain a seperate audio rendering you can use elsewhere.