Will this work for me?

BJ Bliffert wrote on 6/20/2007, 6:58 PM
I'm a complete newb when it com to this, but here is what I'm trying to accomplish.

My wife and I own a personal training business an would to produce some digital media for our clients. Both followi along type stuff and some info products regarding things such as exercise technique, workshop footage, and some marketing shorts with shots of workouts, boot camps interspersed with customer testimonials.

I have been playing with the trial version of VMS, an now have the v7 Platinum. I does seem harder than some others to learn, but from what I have read it turns out a better product.

I bought a Sony DCR-SR200. To be honest I didn't know anything about editing or cameras. This seems to be the easiest for what we wanted to do, and the hard drive seemed convenient.

Now I found this forum an read VMS doesn't like to work with MPEG-2 media, which from what I gather is how this camera reaords footage.

Will this combo work for what we want to do? Am I going to lose a good amount of quality when it comes time to burn the DVDs?

I haven't opened the camera yet so I can still take it back if there is a better option. Our niche is pretty tight and I'm willing to bet they will accept a more raw look because the info is waht they are after, not so much production quality, but I still want it to look as pro as possible.

Sorry for the long post, Thanks in advance for the help.

Comments

4eyes wrote on 6/20/2007, 9:45 PM
It's really not a hard decision, if you want to edit the videos and really customize them, fade in's, fade outs & make a nice production (which is editing) with minimal quality loss, then a camcorder that records to DV tape is the best choice.
Once you record in DV mode you can do almost anything to the video(s).

This is also possilble with the camcorder that records in mpeg2 format, but when editing mpeg2 video it's not the same as DV, reason being mpeg2 is compressed much more than DV video.

The DV format is a video standard that uses one set of video & audio settings, hence any editor will always see the same technical characteristics of the video, editing is much more reliable including the fact that their is hardly any quality loss in editing DV Video.

Mpeg2 video can have many different video & audio parameters, so editing the video becomes much more complicated then one would think.

If you want to make great videos I suggest either a Sony HC3/HC5/HC7. This is a dual purpose camcorder, records in the HDV highdefinition mode (mpeg2) and also standard DV mode. So you can also record standard DV from the cam. The cam also has an interval downconvert so if you did record in HighDefinition you put the cam into the downconvert mode and output in DV format. This is done internally in the camcorders circuitry.
Another nice feature with these cams is they can be connected directly to Standard TV or HDTV's. The cams have Hdmi, component, composite & S-Video outputs.
A less expensive cam with the same functions (I think) is the Canon HV20.

In my opinion, you can't go wrong with DV when editing.
BJ Bliffert wrote on 6/20/2007, 10:00 PM
Thanks for the reply, it helps. If High Def isn't that big of a deal what camera would you suggest?

So, am I understanding this right?

The trade off for the convenience of the HD is lost in the hassle in the editing?

I was told too, that the HD camera would import the footage faster and if I had 10hrs of footage with the miniDV it woudl take 10hours to import it. Is this true?

Is the loss of picture quality noticable to the average person?
IanG wrote on 6/21/2007, 2:52 AM
>The trade off for the convenience of the HD is lost in the hassle in the editing?
Yes

>I was told too, that the HD camera would import the footage faster and if I had 10hrs of footage with the miniDV it woudl take 10hours to import it. Is this true?
Yes, but consider whether or not you'd realy need all 10 hours. Scenalyzer is a video capture app which will produce a high speed preview of your tape(s) and let you select the scenes you need. These are then captured in real time. You don't need Scenalyzer to be selective, but it helps.

>Is the loss of picture quality noticable to the average person?
It depends - the quality of the original footage makes a lot of difference. You'd probably have most problems in scenes with a lot of movement or low or uneven light.

Even entry level MiniDV camcorders can produce acceptable results, but I'd look for one that can take an external microphone. A decent tripod would be a good idea, too.

Ian G.
BJ Bliffert wrote on 6/21/2007, 7:24 AM
So considering we are exercise type info porducts, th miniDV is what I should use, huh?

Is the SD capabilities on something the like Sony HC5 better than the Sony DC48? Or is SD all the same. Will it make a difference in editing?

If I record in HD and capture in SD, will that SD look 'better'? Sorry if thar is a dumb question. I just want to make sure we get the best for our needs, I don't mind spending the extra money if it is really that much bettter.
4eyes wrote on 6/21/2007, 8:06 AM
>The trade off for the convenience of the HD is lost in the hassle in the editing?
I don't understand, there is nothing lost, you have 2 options, record in SD or HD, either way when you transfer the tape IF you recorded in HD mode then you also have 2 options, transfer the tape in DV (standard mode) or HD (mpeg2)mode.
My Sony HC3 records in standard DV mode better than any of my DV standard cams. The resolution is superb.
If I record in HD mode the video is nothing less then incredible for consumer based hd video.
You have 2 options for converting HD to SD. Hardware in the cam or software using VMS or Vegas.
Do Not buy a AVCHD Cam when looking at HD_Cams, you need to work with editable formats

>I was told too, that the HD camera would import the footage faster and if I had 10hrs of footage with the miniDV it woudl take 10hours to import it. Is this true?
Everything is done in realtime when using tape. You can pre-mark the tape and record only the portions you want to. Either way 10 hours of video is alot of video editing to perform.

I make instructional dvd's without a cam at all. I use pictures, backgrounded colored overwritten with text to start.
I record the audio narration and match the pictures length to the pictures or text audio track. Use a fast transistion between pictures and narate each picture. Many pictures also have the text imbedded in the picture for the hearing impaired, having closed captions or sub-titles is available in the full Vegas package which includes DVD Architect. The whole project becomes a video when you render it to a mpeg2 file for burning to a dvd.

Using the above project as an example in VMS you could export (render as) to a dv type-2 file and mpeg2 video file.
Then load them as separate projects, edit & export the edited project out again to the same formats. Judge for yourself the results.
One thing about mpeg2 editing is if you end up with audio sync issues (lip sync), it's very hard to fix or repair, sometimes not possible without hours of re-work. I've never had audio/lip sync problems editing DV.

>Is the loss of picture quality noticable to the average person?
This is the reason why I would use a Sony HC3/5/7 camcorder.
Just my opinion, good luck with your project selection and business.
BJ Bliffert wrote on 6/21/2007, 8:26 AM
I should have been more clear. When I typed HD above, I meant hard drive.

Thanks for the input, it looks like I'll be gettting the HC5 instead. Unless someone else has some advice?
4eyes wrote on 6/21/2007, 8:00 PM
I should have been more clear. When I typed HD above, I meant hard drive.

They are correct, those cams record directly to the harddisk in mpeg2 format so to get the video
onto your computer it's simple by just copying the files from that camcorder to your harddisk.
The files on that type of camcorder are in the mpeg2 format. Not the DV format.
Again, mpeg2 can be edited but is not a reliable editing method. The only thing I consider reliable with mpeg editing is very simple editing such as cuts & trims on I-Frames.
Case being if you have spent days working on a project and suddenly have problems such as program crashes/lip-sync issues, there is a good chance of losing all that work.
DV editing is the most reliable editing format.

If you do purchase the HC5 good luck with it. The videos it produces in SD or HD to me are nothing less then excellent for a consumer based camcorder.
One important point, use only Sony Premium tapes in the Sony cam. I've even switched to using the Sony HDV tapes (expensive) for recording HDV Video. But I found this to be important to use the Sony Premium tapes in my HC3 camcorder. Do not mix brands, stay with one, I chose Sony after talking to persons who have had their cams in the shops for repairs. A few cases being they were using the wrong tapes and clogged the heads.
IanG wrote on 6/22/2007, 1:15 AM
Sorry to rat-hole this thread, but were the problems with clogged heads recent? I thought that had been fixed ages ago.

<edit>
It seems Sony fixed the problem, but reintroduced it with their high def tapes! The choice is to use only Sony tapes or anything but Sony tapes.

Ian G.
OhMyGosh wrote on 6/22/2007, 8:30 AM
'The cam also has an interval downconvert so if you did record in HighDefinition you put the cam into the downconvert mode and output in DV format.'


After you downconvert and edit in DV, can you then render to mpeg2 and get your HD quality back? Thanks. Cin
4eyes wrote on 6/22/2007, 2:08 PM
lanG,
<edit>That was my understanding of it. I had thought this was also resolved therefore used other brand than Sony since I had some on hand (standard dv tapes). But even without using the HDV tapes I had problems with other brands compared to the Sony Premiums. I also had problems in a Canon DV camcorder using other brands and switching brands in the Canon camcorder. So I cleaned the heads in the HC3 for about 10 seconds, switched to Sony tapes and haven't any problems since the switchover.

I was informed that Sony uses a wet lubricant with their tapes, other manufacturers use dry lubricant.

I've been using the HDV tapes for a few reasons, #1 they work, and I'll learn how many times I can re-record on them and all. I do like to writeback/archive to tape and was thinking that recording the original on HDV and writing back the edited footage to the Sony Premiums would be a cost effective archiving method (for tape archiving). also on dvd's, but I don't think dvd's are a proven archiving method yet, they are still to new with different grade levels.
After you downconvert and edit in DV, can you then render to mpeg2 and get your HD quality back? Thanks. CinNo, once you downconvert it's SD video, the HD video is lost (still on the tape though). To get the HD from the cam you turn the downconvert feature off and capture direct hd-mpeg2 to your harddisk. No need to convert the hd-mpeg2 that is captured, it's already mpeg video in TS (transport stream) format. The files have an extension of .m2t
OhMyGosh wrote on 6/22/2007, 4:24 PM
Thank you 4eyes for the response, and information. Appreciate both. Cin