Windows Media Screen Capture

DrRob wrote on 2/7/2002, 9:30 AM
When I bring video into VV3 that was created as a .wmv file with Windows Media Encoder and the screen capture codec (I'm creating a Software instruction video), there are black frames interspersed on the video time line. This virtually prohibits rendering of editied, usable video from the original footage in any format (including the original .wmv). Has anyone else experienced this? Is it a known bug? Am I doing something wrong? I sent a message to support but only recieved an automated reply with no follow-up.

Comments

Cheesehole wrote on 2/7/2002, 9:57 AM
i've noticed this with Windows Media too. in general it isn't a good idea to try to edit that format. it is highly compressed, and uses temporal compression, which means many frames are actually dependant on other frames. some files only have an I frame (independant frame) every 10 seconds or even longer than that. all the stuff in-between sometimes comes out black for me. i don't actually use the format in my projects, i was just dropping asfs/wmvs on the timeline so i could see the audio track and compare levels with another file.

if there's another less 'compressed' format that you can use, you might want to stick with that. maybe MS RLE would be suitable for your material but i don't even know if that opens up in Vegas. i was disapointed that you can't render to MS RLE.

AVI RAW is useful too, but you have to download and install the Intel Indeo codec pack (in developer mode). and you are limited to 640x480 or something close to that. frame-rate has to be something like 15 or 30. 29.97 wouldn't work for me.
DrRob wrote on 2/8/2002, 9:04 AM
While this is admitedly not an ideal format for raw video editing, the only screen capture utility I have is Windows Media Encoder which supports ONLY this format. I appreciate the distance between I-frames, but I expect that to result in "fuzzy" video or "poor quality" video, not video drop out.

The original screen capture plays just fine in windows media player with no blanking. If I render the Vegas version to Windows Media or any other format, I get just what I predict from the video line, interspersed black frames. I take this to mean that the "read" of the Windows Media File is where errors are occuring. Given that my final "production" will be streamed across a 28.8 modem, video quality is adequate for my purposes if I can just eliminate frame blanking.
briand wrote on 2/9/2002, 4:14 PM
For a solution that will out put AVI, although not free like the media encoder, take a look at Hyperionics Hypercam (http://www.hyperionics.com/). Only $30, so if it does the job, it might be worth it to get AVI out.
DrRob wrote on 2/10/2002, 5:48 PM
I'll check into this. Do you have any experience with this tool? Ultimately, I will be distributing my output as Web streams. I presume this will mean translating from a proprietary CODEC stored as .avi to some version of .WM7, .WM8 or possible Real Media with VV3 or possible Premiere. Have you ever translated to a streaming format from their raw capture?
Cheesehole wrote on 2/10/2002, 9:37 PM
you should find out from the company what codec they use and then see if you can get an evaluation file to test in VV3.
kj wrote on 6/5/2002, 12:31 AM
Hi,
I had the same problem. I tried several fixes, including doing screen caps from the encoder to WM8 format (which works, but has the same black frame problem) and changing a number of settings. Not sure if this is a problem with the particular version of the CODECS I have, but I think they are the most recent. I also downloaded the latest update file, which seems to have a memory leak - I keep getting an out of virtual memory error - I'm sure that there will be lots of griping about that one. I hope they fix this problem because I think it is a bug. It should just work - the captured WM7 files play perfectly before coming into VV3.
Cheesehole wrote on 6/5/2002, 2:08 AM
if you are serious about doing screen recording, check out Camtasia. I use it and it is an excellent program. lots of cool features and great performance, if you use the option to record with windows display acceleration turned off.

and the captured files work perfectly in VV3. the included TSSC codec uses lossless compression btw. then when you are done editing you can render to WMV7 screen.
vinmangraphics wrote on 6/5/2002, 10:07 AM
You might want to take a look at this:
CamStudio (opensource/free) capture utility

http://www.atomixbuttons.com/vsc/

downloaded it, but haven't used it myself yet. I got it for a project where I thought I was going to need a screencap movie, but then didn't.

- vin


dpfresh wrote on 11/6/2002, 10:00 AM
Does anyone else have a problem streaming wmv or asf files that use the WMP Screen V7 codec? It chokes on our streaming server but if I change it to the video codec as oppossed to screen it will stream fine. I am using still so I need to use the screen for best quality.
markrad wrote on 11/6/2002, 10:30 PM
I will add to what Vin was saying about CAMSTUDIO. I have used it and I'm very satisfied with the results. When I render the CamStudio AVIs to .WMV I use the Windows Media Screen V7 format with my own custom custom VIDEO template-

Image size 800x600 (max)
Quality at 100%

These settings would not be ideal for streaming (never tried) but they work well for regular playback on the Windows Media Player. Try using the Alt+Enter command to playback in true full-screen playback mode while running the WMP.

Mark




PMalloy wrote on 11/7/2002, 8:36 AM
I have used HyperCam to captured fast moving plasma displays generated by playing a cd track. I used this .avi directly in VV3 without any problem as if I had captured it within VV3. This was using the "Full Frames (Uncompressed)" option on the AVI File tab. It listed all my installed video codecs as choices to use.

HyperCam has several options including framerate and key frame. You can also capture with or without sound.

I suggest checking it out.

Pat
SonyEPM wrote on 11/7/2002, 8:53 AM
With the old (vs 8) MS encoder you could save as .avi or convert .wm to .avi, but in version 9 it appears you cannot, and it also appears you can't open 9 files in version 8 and convert them that way. My suggestion for now is to use Camtasia- we use that internally for all our training materials.

We have been working with Microsoft on the "black frames when reading .wm files" issue- no promises as to when an improvement will be shipped by SF, but we are dedicating significant resources to .wm9 and this issue is one of the many we'll be addressing in a future update.
Cheesehole wrote on 11/7/2002, 5:54 PM
I'm happy to hear that SF is focusing on wm9. it looks like MS finally is getting its act together on the Windows Media thing. only time will tell though. they've screwed up plenty of good things before.

I hope that this time around, SoFo will be more sensitive to the needs of media developers who want to deliver the easiest and best viewing experience to the end viewer. the exclusion of the Windows Media 6.4 encoder from Vegas 3 raised many questions among media developers as to the direction of Vegas and whether it could be trusted as a serious production tool. I tried to defend it, pointing out Vegas's integrated markers and commands which can be embedded into Windows Media files, as well as the fact that we can drop WM files on the timeline, but the paradox created by dropping WM6.4 support, which is the most commonly used format in my line of work for many important reasons, was simply too great to ignore. At best my argument came across as that of an enthusiast.

Some people utilized my insane method of installing Vegas 2.0b and then installing Vegas 3 and configuring all the templates from Vegas 2 and rendering them from Vegas 3, but there are a lot of annoying things about the old installer, and you have to be able to get hold of Vegas 2.0b which isn't easy. later versions won't install under WinXP and they also drop the WM 6.4 plug in. in other words, this was far too much for most people to bother with. they stuck with Vegas 2, and perhaps they have moved on to something else by now. one thing is for sure, a lot of potential VV3 sales were lost.

I put most of the blame for this on Microsoft, who created the situation in the first place, but in that respect we can blame everything on Microsoft. it's up to us developers to act as a buffer between the mess that MS creates, and the products that we want people to enjoy, trouble free.

so please consider taking a more inclusive approach to the next Windows Media update for Vegas. just give us everything! the streaming media developers will appreciate it immensely and I could definitely sell more people on Vegas if it had encoding support for all versions of Windows Media, especially good old WM6.4.

I can't wait to see the next update!