WOT: PC for streaming video to TV

RalphM wrote on 11/5/2011, 11:50 AM
I finally brought myself into this century with a new 3D plasma set and would like to dedicate a PC to handiling streaming video from the internet. I'm believing that the PC does not have to be really high on processing power. Perhaps a dual core machine would be fine?

Any suggestions or sharing of your system setup would be appreciated.

Thanks,
RalphM

Comments

DataMeister wrote on 11/5/2011, 11:51 AM
What TV did you get?
RalphM wrote on 11/5/2011, 11:58 AM
Samsung Series 550, 51 inch. I think it's their entry level plasma set. So far I'm very pleased with it.

RalphM
Jøran Toresen wrote on 11/5/2011, 12:25 PM
Ralph, take a look at one of these from ASRock:

http://www.newegg.com/Store/BrandSubCategory.aspx?Brand=1944&SubCategory=3&name=ASRock-Barebone-Systems

I have one with an i5 and Blu-ray player. Very good pc.

Jøran
johnmeyer wrote on 11/5/2011, 1:39 PM
The thing you are contemplating building and/or buying is generically called a "Home Theater PC" or HTPC. The best place to get educated about this topic is here:

AVS Forum - Home Theater Computers

The main guide for how to build a HTPC has over four million views!! (That one thread has more views than this whole forum!) If you read nothing else on this extensive help site, at least take a look at the "basic" guide:

Guide to Building a Home Theater PC

You can spend a couple of hours just reading the very informative "stickys" at the top of this forum. You can then ask any specific questions.

There are quite a few issues in building a PC for streaming, including:

1. What do you want to watch? Do you want to stream from the Internet? Stream from other computers in your home? Do you want to watch Blu-Ray? DVDs? Videotape? Video from your camcorder (such as raw AVCHD footage)? Do you want to watch digital OTA video?

2. What do you want to record? A properly configured HTPC can be the ultimate "Tivo" device, since it can record just about any non-encrypted source.

3. Where will you put this computer? If it is going to be "in the open," then you'll want a really quiet computer. This means the fans in the computer (and fans on video cards, etc.) need to be extraordinarily quiet.

4. How much processing do you want to do? Unlike most other components you attach to your TV, a HTPC can process the video before displaying it. This includes "deinterlacing" (if required by your display). Also, since you have a 3D display, you should look into what sort of software and hardware can be purchased for a PC that can add to the 3D experience. You will find a "FAQ" in the stickys in the first link above that discusses 3D issues when building a HTCP.

5. How do you want to control the HTPC? There are all sorts of remote control possibilities, but you can also use a wireless mouse and keyboard, or some other "control surface," as it is known here in video editing land. Some people really get into this (one of my business partners from Ventura Software spent a dozen years perfecting the "ultimate" control device for exotic high-end home theater setups).

6. What other bells and whistles do you want? If you start reading the AVS Forum posts, you'll soon find that a HTPC can do all sorts of things that you may never have thought about. Think Tivo on Steroids. So, you can get all sorts of program guides, lists of videos in your library, video search engines, recording multiple programs, etc.

I could go on for many pages. Read the stickys and you'll soon find some "cookbook" recipes for how you can build your own, either for cheap, or for a lot of money.

John

RalphM wrote on 11/5/2011, 6:02 PM
Thank you Joran and John,

As always the generosity of information in the replies given on this forum amazes me...

After spending about an hour on the AVS forum, I see many dangers there (an opportunity to build a new toy). The depth of information on AVS is outstanding and has already pointed me away from my original direction of thought.

Of course, there's the other consideration from the wife: "as long as I can just push "power-on" and watch it..."

Thanks for the replies,

RalphM
musicvid10 wrote on 11/5/2011, 6:19 PM
I serve HD from my lowly dual-core notebook to the WDTV live with rarely a stutter.
Depends more on your continuous LAN throughput than on the computer itself. And don't believe the numbers if you're using wireless. 1/3 of the advertised speed is good.
musicvid10 wrote on 11/5/2011, 6:44 PM
Here's a little BAT file I wrote a while back to test relative bidirectional throughput on a wired or wireless LAN connection. To use, edit the file with your router or destination's IP, and full path to fping.exe (required).

@ECHO ON
@ECHO *
@ECHO Router Ping Utility (routerping.bat)
@ECHO Useful for comparing throughput using various WiFi channels (1, 6, 11)
@ECHO Also 5GHz band
@ECHO *
@ECHO EDIT FILE WITH YOUR ROUTER'S IP AND LOCATION OF fping.exe (required)
@ECHO Test takes 2+ minutes to complete (2000 pings)
@ECHO To stop - type Control-C.
@ECHO *
@pause

@REM Add (-L filename.txt) to create a Logfile.
@REM See fping documentation for more parameters.
@REM EDIT YOUR ROUTER IP AND PATH TO fping.exe HERE
@C:\Users\******\fping.exe 192.168.1.1 -n 2000 -s 32768 -t 1

@ECHO *
@ECHO More than 7 dropped packets may indicate channel interference.
@ECHO DIVIDE 500 BY AVERAGE TIME TO GET RELATIVE THROUGHPUT (Mbps)
@ECHO 30-40 percent of your router max is good.
@ECHO *
@pause
CorTed wrote on 11/5/2011, 6:50 PM
I actually built this HTPC and use it with my Samsung 52" LCD and works like a charm. using HDMI directly from the mobo.

Here is the shopping list I used back in Dec 2010.
Prices may vary, but you get the idea.
And John Meyer is right, the AVS Forum is a wealth of info for HTPC.


Mother board:
ASUS P7H55-M PRO LGA 1156 Intel H55 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131623
$90


CPU:
Intel Core i3-540 Clarkdale 3.06GHz 4MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80616I3540

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115221&cm_re=i3_540-_-19-115-221-_-Product
$115


Memory:
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193&cm_re=f3-12800cl9d--_-20-231-193-_-Product
$92

HTPC Case:
nMEDIAPC Black Aluminum / Acrylic / Steel HTPC 5000B Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811204035&Tpk=htpc%205000b
$70

Powersupply:
Rosewill Stallion Series RD400-2-SB 400W ATX V2.2 Power Supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182074&Tpk=Rosewill%20RD400-2-SB
$35
Blu-Ray Reader/writer:
LG Black 10X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM SATA Internal Blu-ray Disc Combo Model UH10LS20

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136183&cm_re=LG_UH10LS20-_-27-136-183-_-Product
$90


Harddrive:
Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136317&cm_re=wd10eads-_-22-136-317-_-Product
$80

Subtotal $542
OS:

Windows 7 Home Premium
www.microsoft.com $110




Optional Items:

HDMI cable to connect HTPC to HDTV:
Rosewill 6 ft. HDMI Cable Model RC-6-HDMI-MM-BK

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119253&cm_re=RC-6-hdmi-_-12-119-253-_-Product
$6
Remote Keyboard & mouse:
Rosewill RKM-800RF 2.4 GHz Cordless Slim Keyboard and Mouse
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823201035&Tpk=rkm-800rf
$30
TV HD tuner:
Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 Media Center Kit Dual TV Tuner 1213 PCI-Express x1 Interface :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116036&cm_re=HVR-2250-_-15-116-036-_-Product
$125


HDD for media storage:
Seagate Barracuda LP ST32000542AS 2TB 5900 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148413&cm_sp=MyNewegg-_-TopSel-_-Pst02Descrip
$110
Wireless NIC:
EDIMAX EW-7128G IEEE 802.11b/g PCI Wireless Card Up to 54Mbps Wireless Data Rates 64/128-Bit WEP, 802.1x
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833315041&Tpk=EDIMAX%20EW-7128G%20PCI%20Wireless%20Card
$20

Possible software options:

http://www.sage.tv/stvfeatures.html

http://www.jrmediacenter.com/
johnmeyer wrote on 11/5/2011, 7:43 PM
One thing I forgot to mention in my last post.

I've been wanting to build the "ultimate" HTPC for a long time (years) but haven't had the time. However, like many similar things, I have found it useful to put together a "quick and dirty," zero cost prototype, and I've been using that for the past six months. All I did was take a $300 eBay used laptop that I purchased a few years back and connected it to my Samsung LED LCD 55" projection TV via the VGA output. I then connected a wireless mouse and keyboard. I use a wired connection to the network because you always get smoother throughput with a wired connection, even when the 54 mbps wireless 801.1g limitation doesn't come into play.

The advantage of using a laptop is that it takes up little space, and it runs quietly.

Doing this has let me fully understand the "issues" with a home theater PC. When I say "issues," I mean the things that are important to me. Here are a few random things I have learned from this "trial" that I wouldn't have otherwise discovered (all of these are probably in one of those 1,000+ threads in AVS, but I'll never have time to read them all).

1. It would be nice to be able to turn the thing on & off via a remote. With my prototype, I have to press the on/off on the laptop to get it running.

2. It would be very nice to be able to tune and record OTA HD (I get the best HD signal from an old-fashioned long-range traditional YAGI antenna on my roof).

3. The range of the keyboard and mouse is very important. The units I'm using were a gift from a neighbor who got them with a computer purchase and didn't want them. They are made by HP, but are only good to about twenty feet. For HTPC, even if you sit within twenty feet, you'll be right at the edge of the range. So, you want something that will go to perhaps 100 feet, even though that is overkill.

4. Matching the display card to your TV is incredibly important. My laptop has one resolution at which it is "happiest," namely the internal resolution of the built-in screen. However, it can output the the VGA connector in other resolutions, but none of these match the native resolution of my TV screen. Ideally, the computer should output in the native resolution of the TV. The visual quality of my setup definitely suffers from the way scaling is being done.

5. You want to output from the computer to the TV via HDMI. Using a VGA connector (which was the best option from this old laptop) has all sorts of downsides (strips the CC information; only has certain resolutions, etc.). So, HDMI out from the video card is mandatory.

6. A REALLY fast Internet connection would be sweet. I don't have the option here, and am stuck with only one Internet service (AT&T), and the maximum is 2,500 kbps downstream. For really great streaming, you want at least twice this much. For instance, I cannot reliably stream YouTube at 720p, and 1080 is out of the question. Vimeo always stutters.

7. Better interface hardware and software would make the experience much nicer. With my setup, I'm basically having the same experience as I would have sitting here at this computer, except that the screen is really big, and I have a full-fledged home theater system with lots of wattage, big speakers, and a large subwoofer. It would be much nicer to, as you say, push the button and have it all work. This prototype isn't even close to that ideal.

8. I'd like the ability to play anything. I don't have a Blu-Ray capability in this setup, and the processor in this old laptop limits what I can do with other types of HD content. It would be really, really nice if I could take HDV and/or AVCHD clips directly from the camera and play them at full resolution and full speed, without any re-encoding or special steps. I don't need anything too fancy to do this, but this old laptop cannot quite do the job.

Despite all the limitations, we regularly watch TV shows on Hulu and Netflix, and sometimes stream ESPN. Having said that, my son's old Xbox 360 provides a much better viewing experience for Netflix and ESPN, so we generally use that for those two sources. There is no doubt in my mind that, unless the Internet bandwidth cannot keep up, the future of all media delivery in the home is the Internet, and DBS (satellite, like DirecTV) and traditional cable TV (even digital) are likely to have a dramatically declining market share.

And, of course, there is the whole discussion about using just the audio portion of the setup for Pandora, etc.

RalphM wrote on 11/5/2011, 9:57 PM
I've thought of trying one of the super cheap off-lease dual cores I see for around $200, by the time I wqould put in a video card with HDMI, I'd be almost half way to something that has much more potential and less heat/noise.

I'm fortunate to have a good connection speed between 25 and 30 Mbs from the cable company, and FIOS is available at the curb if I want it. It's pretty easy to run an ethernet cable from my router to whatever becomes the center of the entertainment area.

What is really unfortunate is that OTA is spotty, even with a big yagi in the attic. While I'm not far from several stations, I'm in a hole with marginal reception. When OTA is good, it's very good, but when it's bad it's unwatchable. (makes me yearn for the days of analog TV) I may have to do battle with the homeowners association and try an antenna on the roof. They can't restrict anything under one meter insixe, but that's probably not going to do the job. If I could get good OTA, I'd chuck cable and keep the internet.

RalphM