XML and EDL concerns summary database

videoITguy wrote on 3/24/2013, 1:08 PM
Because of what I think should be the interest of the VegasPro user community and for ultimate feedback to SCS, I am starting this thread to summarize the information that is scattered among many other threads in this forum and others. If I have seriously misquoted anyone, I apologize in advance, and please do comment on what you see here.

The following summation opens this thread:
Subject: RE: Project Interchange help!
Reply by: DaveT2
Date: 2/28/2013 7:10:30 AM

I have successfully used a Vegas EDL in a Final Cut project. It was a 3 minute video.

What we did was first Export the EDL using the script, not the SAVE AS. Then Open the

EDL in a Mac Notepad program (whatever the Mac equivalent of notepad is) and save

that. Then import that EDL into Final Cut. If you have access to Avid EDL manager, you

can also wash it through that.

Now Caveats. The EDL will only handle one (1) video track, so if you have multiple

tracks, you have to create a project for each track and export the EDL.

Next, you have to make sure you have given REEL names to the clips. This is done

under clip properties. Without the REEL names, it will think each clip came from the

same source.

It did show cuts and dissolves, but any other effects were lost (speed changes, color

etc).


I have not tried using the Vegas 12 XML for a project.

Dave T2
Message last edited on 2/28/2013 8:01:38 AM, by DaveT2.

Reply by: ForumAdmin
Date: 2/28/2013 9:11:43 AM

You should export the media pool to make it easier to re-link in the destination app. If

any of your media is not supported by FCP or even Premiere, then you'll need to

transcode it first.

EDL will not work as well as the new export options in VegasPro 12 that are designed

to be specific to each destination application. Read install notes carefully with

VegasPro12 version 486 for an update...the new options are updated there.

"Notable fixes/changes in version 12.0 (Build 486)
Added support for exporting nested Vegas Pro projects as compound clips when exporting to Final Cut Pro X format.
Added support for importing compound clips as nested Vegas Pro projects when importing from Final Cut Pro X format.

When importing a Final Cut Pro X project, a Vegas project is created for the main project using the same base name as the .fcpxml file, and separate nested Vegas projects are created for each compound clip and for each clip that contains an audio and a video stream. "



Also, check the export log, which is saved alongside the XML. The log file contains all of

the details of what has been exported, and what hasn't. If any tracks or events have been

omitted from the export XML, the log will tell you what and why.

Paddy
SCS



Subject: RE: Idea for a new feature
Reply by: Gary James
Date: 10/17/2012 1:23:29 PM

To export to XML, run the Sony Vegas Export script found here.>
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63993628/Export%20XML.cs?dl=1
To Import the XML, run the Sony Vegas Import script found here.>
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63993628/Import%20XML.cs?dl=1

Save these to files with a ".CS" file extension. Then run them from the Vegas script

menu item.
Message last edited on 10/17/2012 1:30:59 PM, by Gary James.

Reply by: Laurence
Date: 10/17/2012 2:44:05 PM

I've used the VegasPro EDL provided feature. Here's what I find that happens: You get

the clips all in the right place with crossfades substituted for any transitions. All the text,

transitions, filters, etc. have to be recreated from scratch. Typically this happens right at

the point where you are completely done with a project and just need to render, only to

find out that other versions of VegasPro might not render correctly , probably because

one or combination of the filters or video codecs in your project.


Subject: RE: Export Vegas EDL / Import to Adobe CS6
Reply by: rs170a
Date: 8/17/2012 10:15:55 AM

streckfus, here's a script that may be of some use to you.
It allows you to import into Adobe After Effects a Sony Vegas project saved as “EDL Text File.”
I've had a few folks tell me that it worked great for them.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20488019/ImportSonyVegasEDL.zip

Mike

Subject: RE: free script to export Vegas EDL to AE
Date: 2/15/2012 2:19:03 PM
Vegas > AE > Premiere ...had to try it.

TEST
1) took a short edit using an IMAGE-SEQUENCE
2) saved off the EDL, exited Vegas
3) opened AE
4) used your script in AE
it brought the project in cuts-only with each cut on a separate track.

5) then went File > Export > Adobe Premiere Pro Project (cuz i move between NLE's sometimes)
it brought the project in cuts-only with each cut now on the same track.

NOTE
in After Effects, the image-sequence came in as a single-frame. I had to go Replace Footage > File in the project window and change the still-frame back to an image-sequence. But once I'd done that, all the frames fell into their right place... not really a problem, just a minor adjust once the script has done it's thing.


So I'm not sure when/if this script will get used by me, but it's great to interact more easily with post-production software. Utility-based tools are often overlooked for lack-of-sexiness but I love these kinda things even if I don't use 'em much. Definitely keeping this one in my EDITORS_TOOLBOX
Message last edited on 2/15/2012 2:51:32 PM, by robwood.
NOTES:
I use Chainick's Import Sony Vegas EDL script to move projects from Vegas > AE > Premiere as well.
(From there, I'm fairly sure I could also export a OMF, AAF, or XML for use in other NLE's as well)

Although I have to redo my FADES/transitions at some point, the timing of the cuts/clips is perfect. (I'm not sure what more could be done with this script, but I look forward to future updates or similar scripts)

This is definitely a step in the right direction for getting Vegas to play nicely with others.

Subject: RE: Export Vegas EDL / Import to Adobe CS6
Reply by: streckfus
Date: 8/17/2012 4:44:02 PM

This...worked...PERFECTLY.

Cut together a quick sequence in Vegas, exported it as a .txt EDL file. Used the provided script to bring it into AE, then exported it as a Premiere Pro project.

Once in Premiere Pro, I could do additional tweaking with the edit, then go back and forth between Premiere Pro and AE using dynamic link.

Granted, it was only a three-clip sequence with two edit points, but I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work with entire scenes as long as I make sure that I keep all cuts on a single video track and compensate clip length for transitions & effects, which are easy enough to accomplish in Premiere Pro.

Thank you SO much for the help. I am very pleased that I can continue to use Vegas as my NLE to do all preliminary editing and take advantage of its speed and efficiency, then easily bring the assembled cut into the Adobe suite to do post-production work without having to waste time and disk space creating intermediate renders.

This truly is the best of both worlds. Thanks again for the help. It is much appreciated.


Comments

videoITguy wrote on 3/24/2013, 1:22 PM
The following post goes into some depth about handling the new BlackMagic Design camera files and use of Cineform for transcode.
Transcoding to a format that an NLE should read and write is an important step to crossing and roundripping in different NLE environments with problematic sources in production.


Here is the info from the perspective from a user of VegasPro as an NLE in the mix:

Question about Cineform, DiVinci Resolve and Black Magic Design Cinema Camera
My status: At this point I am shooting two different Black Magic formats. First is the Shuttle 2 Hyperdeck, shot mostly with my VG20 as the camera, and the second is, as of yesterday, the Black Magic Cinema camera. For most situations I will be shooting in Black Magic's version of ProRes for each of the recording systems. As I understand that, we are talking about a 10 bit version in the Shuttle, and a 12 bit version in the Black Magic Cinema Camera.

Because I have been a Cineform user for many years, I feel comfortable with the applications, and trust the technologies that Cineform has employed. I have been trying to work with Davinci Resolve Lite as things got closer to delivery of my BM Cinema camera. Obviously, Resolve is intended to do similar things to Cineform, and I have to now seriously consider the best work flow.

1. The first thing I suspect is that my version of Studio probably isn't sufficient, and Cineform will not therefore even recognize my files for use in Cineform Studio. I do seem to be able reincode with HDLink still, but the files won't load into Studio for Conversion. I think I have the lowest paid version of Cineform/GoPro Studio, does this mean I would need to go up to next level ?

2. Second, given the obvious jump in quality of files coming out of the recorders, and their apparent ingestion without great difficulty in Vegas, should I be doing the convert thing anymore ? My first day playing with the Cinema Camera output shows a pretty seemless process can be worked by simply doing an initial grade of clips in Resolve and then moving on into Vegas for editing. I also have Premiere I can work with, to accomplish similar tasks. So question is, what are the benefits, if any, of carrying forward my Cineform work flow with these files from the Black Magic products ?

Reply: If you are on a PC, the latest version of Cineform Studio eats the BMC raw files just fine - makes CineformRaw out of it, so you get the benefits of CF files (speed, size) without scarifying raw benefits.

Your second option - which should also work on a Mac - is, throw your raw files into Resolve, do a first light grade - that is setting them to the BMC color space and add a 709 LUT to them and than render out as "normal" (like in non-raw) Cineform files.

Both works great, I do that all the time. Especially love the choice of different Debayering methods in CF.

Note from Cineform:
With Cineform Studio Premium, you can use the Studio interface to convert CinemaDNG files directly into CineForm RAW. The conversion will automatically adjust to the white balance from the sensor and the color matrix in the CinemaDNG files...this will eliminate the green tint that you were seeing with the dpx2cf tool (doing it non-destructively.)

Usage:
Launch GoPro CineForm Studio and use the 'Step 1 Import' room to select a single file from the image sequence (it will automatically import the rest of the sequence). For simple batch importing a lot of clips, drag in the folder(s) containing all your shots from an explorer window into the import clips bin.

Then in the 'advanced settings', choose your conversion settings.

Quality: Filmscan 1 is sufficient but if you want to get into the shadows a little more, go with Filmscan2
Encoding Curve: Up to you (Protune default is excellent, optimized for 11)…, but again, upping it to 13 stops will let you get more detail from the shadows.
Decoding Curve: Play around and see what you like best...you can always change this setting after the conversion.

Then add the clips to the conversion list and click 'convert all'.

After conversion, proceed to the 'Step 2 Edit' room to do the image adjustments.

Installer:
http://software.gopro.com/beta/GoPro....152-Setup.exe

Keep in mind that this is a beta and your feedback is welcome.

Regarding Resolve not seeing the adjustments you make in CineForm Studio, that appears to be a choice made by BlackMagic Design for Resolve. Hopefully they can add implementation in the future.

One more thing...a Mac version is in the works! :comment by David Newman
videoITguy wrote on 3/24/2013, 7:23 PM
Subject: RE: Using XML Export in Vegas Question
Reply by: DaveT2
Date: 3/18/2013 11:27:16 AM

XML export feature is a legitimate concern for the user community. On the EXPORT menu in VegasPro12 build 486, there are specific export options for Pro Tools, Premiere/After Affects, Final Cut Pro 7/Davinci Resolve and Final Cut ProX. This is not part of the scripting options. So issues need to be brought to SCS attention if this is not working correctly.

Dave T2

Reply by: JasonATL
Date: 3/18/2013 2:05:51 PM

I did go back to the BlackmagicDesign company forums and search for the exact error that I was getting. There was "timecode extents" didn't match error. Searching the BMD forums reveals that this is a very common frustration with many. One thread suggested that the timecode might not be stored in certain media files "correctly" (I say correctly in quotes to simply indicate that "correct" means how Resolve wants it). This led me to try using a different intermediate proxy. I had been using a DNxHD .mov proxy. So, I switched to a Sony MXF proxy. Voila! It SEEMS to now work as intended now. Specifically, using the Sony MXF proxy, the XML from Vegas now seems to import fine into Resolve and link with the original raw .dng files.

Reply by: ForumAdmin
Date: 3/18/2013 2:23:35 PM

What does the export log contain? It should be pretty comprehensive, indicating if anything went wrong on export, and where.

FYI, the Project Interchange features of Vegas Pro 12 are indeed new with XML export menu, and much, much more comprehensive than the import/export capabilities of previous versions of VegasPro

Best,
Paddy
SCS


Reply by: JasonATL
Date: 3/18/2013 7:38:59 PM

I am trying to create proxies of raw (.dng) files in Resolve. This means that I am rendering out my raw files to .mov (or .mxf) files in Resolve.

I want to edit these proxies in Vegas. The reason that I must create this workflow is because Vegas does not handle raw (.dng) files natively. Once the timeline is created edited in Vegas, I want to export the timeline (the XML file) from Vegas so that I can use Resolve to color grade.

To get the most out of the color grade, I want to grade the raw (.dng) files (not files rendered from Vegas - in fact, I'm not rendering anything from Vegas at this point). Resolve has a feature that will automatically relink from the timeline (in theory) to the raw files, rather than using the proxies. This is where the process is problematic. This works in Premiere Pro and, according to others, Final Cut Pro.

Once the color grade is completed, the final files are rendered out in Resolve again. Assuming that the full shots were color graded, then the original proxy files can just be replaced and they should show up on the Vegas timeline with the color grades (there is an alternative possibility here in which the timeline can be exported from Resolve back to Vegas with totally new graded clips rendered out ).

Reply by: TiDa
Date: 3/22/2013 2:52:58 AM

Might be that somebody is interested on a Vegas - DaVinci Resolve Round-Trip without using XML Export.

I did develope a new way by means of EDL txt conversions. VEGAS EDL does include nearly the same information as XML. And I would say you finally can have some additional avantages:...."

A) round-trip does also work with Vegas Pro Versions <12
B) rewrapping to DNxHD takes place after editing
C) post edit rewrapping saves space on hard-drive and render time as it includes head and tail trimming of clips up to cut-only length
D) its possible to apply noise reduction and velocity envelopes to rewrapped files, hence before color grading
E) it's quick and frame accurate
F) final edit will contain all transitions like cross fates, black screen pauses
G) it's free

Please have a look at:
http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/6238/edl_convert-workflow-developement-for-sony-vegas-pro-davinci-resolve-/p1

Reply by: TiDa
Date: 3/22/2013 9:13:03 AM

This frame issue by batch rendering was solved when I did put on the right position of the "DoBatchRender" procedure following adjustment of Start and Length by tcode:

Timecode tcode = Timecode.FromFrames(1);
args.Start = region.Position + tcode;
args.Length = region.Length - tcode;

If you place the region excactly at the position of a clip it starts to render at frame 0. And the real first frame should be frame 1. Hence it will render last frame of previous clip if you do not add tcode. Furthermore, I did adjust Length either and then it works.


Reply by: Zelkien69
Date: 3/22/2013 7:49:52 AM

JasonATL,
I've had the exact same issue. It is a broken system and the people saying that it was never meant to be "This was not meant to adhere to any sort of project interchange standard" with regards to an XML export is simply wrong. When a menu option says export to "xx" program it should export to that format.
I've been having a similar go around and found this link which doesn't fix the core issue about it not working, but others have had the same issues with DNxHD exports from Vegas and as I have experienced it drops one frame on every clip regardless of length. ::www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/6238/edl_convert-workflow-developement-for-sony-vegas-pro-davinci-resolve-/p1::
Our solution has been to batch render our cut projects to *.MXF files and then export the XML Resolve setting. For export we are using DNxHD so the issue seems to be the timecode Vegas is attaching to the DNxHD files or how Resolve is reading on import.
Did you have any red, unlinked clips in your import when trying DNxHD? That also seemed to be solved with MXF.
We used Cineform for the longest time, but with our two latest computer builds for Vegas 12 (i7-3930k, SSD system, 3qty 7200 2TB drives, Windows 7 Pro, and 560ti & the other with 480GTX) we haven't been able to get Cineform to encode properly in Vegas.


Reply by: JasonATL
Date: 3/24/2013 7:19:48 AM

DaveT2 - I just tried changing the time code manually in Vegas Pro 12 (by clicking properties of the media file). Zelkien69 had suggested that something is amiss with the timecode. It worked! Brilliant! Thank you, both.

So, further info seems that Vegas Pro is not READING the starting .mov file, and this seems to be critical for Resolve. VP12 writes the XML file fine if the time code is there, it seems. For now, this is possible to incorporate into a workflow. The starting time code is easily found in Resolve: in the metadata for the file, it shows as Starting T/C.

For a project with 100's of shots, this would not be feasible to change. However, I could see setting the time code manually for 10-20 shots. This seems at least as easy as the file renaming in K-Decisive's workflow, depending on the file renaming tools that you might have available. However, the benefit of this is that it doesn't require us to rename any files or relink them later.

DaveT2: this doesn't explain the problem that you are now having. You mentioned that you were using ProRes? Have you tried DNxHD?

Just to sum up: Here's a workflow that seems to work for me (by fixing the timecode manually).

BMCC Roundtrip Workflow using VP12 and Resolve:
1. In Resolve: Create a media pool of raw .dng files from the BMCC (this might work with any camera's files, but this example has been tested with .dng files).
2. In Resolve: Render the raw files to .mov (proxies) files to use in NLE, using the DNxHD codec (available as a free download from Avid).
3. In Vegas 12: Add the .mov files to a new timeline

3a. *** This is the part that is different for Vegas than for other NLE's, as Vegas appears to not read the timecode of the .mov files. This is the step that, without it, the whole workflow was failing.
Manually set the timecode for each media file in the Project Media (or, at least verify that it is not 00:00:00:00). Right-click each media file and choose "Properties". By default "Use timecode in file" is selected. Change this to "Use custom timecode:" and then enter the starting timecode for the file (see Capture 1 below). The starting timecode can be found in several ways. It appears in Resolve in the media metadata (see Capture 2 below). It also can be found using MediaInfo (time code of first frame).

3b. Edit timeline as desired.
4. In Vegas 12: Export an XML file: File->Export->Final Cut Pro7/DaVinci Resolve (*.xml). There is no need to export the media pool.
5. In Resolve: Import the XML file from the Conform room, choosing not to import the media. On the "Load XML..." screen, uncheck the box that reads, "Automatically import source clips into media pool" (see Capture 3 below) This forces Resolve to use the same media pool as in Step 1). Resolve should automatically link with media pool files rather than the .mov proxies.
6. In Resolve: Color grade.
7. In Resolve: Render final .mov files to be used in final render, replacing the .mov files that were created in Step 2. Alternatively, you can render the imported timeline as separate clips. In this case, you need to export an XML file to be read into Vegas Pro 12. If you made "local" color grades in step 6, then it is necessary to render clips as separate files and export the XML from Resolve (to be imported in Vegas 12 -- note that you'll lose the timecodes again!). If you applied the same color grade to a media file (i.e., you graded the media, not the separate timeline clips), then you can just replace the original proxies.
8. In Vegas 12: Render final output (perhaps after adding some effects, titles, etc.)

Capture 1: plus.google.com/photos/102645356447404039003/albums/5858656049048441505/5858898050483577122
Capture 2: plus.google.com/photos/102645356447404039003/albums/5858656049048441505/5858898050642956706
Capture 3: plus.google.com/photos/102645356447404039003/albums/5858656049048441505/5858656045605268450
Message last edited on 3/24/2013 7:27:38 AM, by JasonATL.


Reply by: JasonATL
Date: 3/24/2013 9:23:41 AM

By the way, the time code on the files that I am using are as simple as the clock time (in 24-hour HH:MM:SS:00 format) that the shot was originally recorded on the camera. This time code is being assigned, I believe, by Resolve when it renders these DNxHD files. In setting the time code, it appears to be relying on the original source file's metadata that has the time code. With different sources, I presume that the time code could be different.

Latest versions (as far as I know) of both DNxHD (2.3.7) and MediaInfo (0.7.62). The time code is reported in the "Other" information at the bottom of the info screen as time code of first frame. I didn't copy and paste into Vegas Pro media properties, but I suppose it is possible. Rather, I typed it exactly as it was in MediaInfo (see Capture below). To see it in MediaInfo, you might try selecting the Tree view. I honestly don't know what view I was using to see the capture in my last post. Some views don't show this info.

Avid DNxHD Download: avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/download/en423319
MediaInfo Download: mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en/Download/Windows

MediaInfo Information Capture: https://plus.google.com/photos/102645356447404039003/albums/5858656049048441505/5858929727916191218

Message last edited on 3/24/2013 9:29:30 AM, by JasonATL.

There is a timecode setting in the Resolve Project Preferences under Conform Options. The default appears to be "Use Timecode: Embedded in the source clip". The other option is "Use Timecode: From the source clip frame count." So, I figured I'd give that a shot.

What that appears to do is to set the DNxHD file's starting time code to zero. Since this is what Vegas was using by default, I thought this might be a solution. My thinking was, if I can't get Vegas Pro 12 to export something that Resolve likes, perhaps I can fool Resolve into liking what Vegas Pro 12 creates.

Alas, when importing the VP12-created XML file, the timeline would import, but the clips were not matched to the correct original source files. So, for this purpose, it failed. It appears that the timecode is critical in Resolve matching to the original source files.

I'm now suddenly curious as to what would happen if there were two files with the exact same timecode (e.g., they were shot on different days, but at the exact same time).

Reply by: DaveT2
Date: 3/24/2013 10:43:00 AM

To distinguish between identical timecodes, Resolve or other programs will use the filename or reel number.

Dave T2

Reply by: DaveT2
Date: 3/24/2013 10:39:53 AM

In this case I have only been using Prores files. The timecode shown within QT is not the timecode of the file. Apparently this is in Metadata that you would have to have special software to read. There is software online being sold to read and change the metadata in QT files, but I don't want to spend any money on this. I do think that Prores and other QT files are not equal in how timecode and other metadata is stored. In most QT files, you can view the track properties and it shows the timecode. In my Prores file, this timecode track is there, but starts at 0. But Mediainfo and other programs say it starts at 59:15;00 and Vegas says 0, so Vegas is probably reading the same TC track as QT. If I try to change it within Vegas, it makes no difference in how Vegas intreprets it, but on an AVI it does. I might create a DNXHd file and see if Vegas treats it differently.

Reply by: DaveT2
Date: 3/24/2013 12:59:18 PM

I finally got an XML to import correctly. I had to delete the audio track from my project. This audio track had an MP3 music track that had been edited so I don't know if it was the format or the existence that caused a problem.

In order for TC to work right, I rendered the Prores to a DNXHD file which defaults to a 00:00:00;00 timecode so it syncs up. But I would hate to have to add the extra render and quality hit for this to be able to work.

edit: Okay, without an audio track, it works with the Original Prores file as well, if I change the properties within Vegas to the correct timecode. So apparently, my audio track of MP3 was messing things up.
Dave T2 - thisMessage was last edited on 3/24/2013 3:21:31 PM, by DaveT2.