YANABTR (aka Yet Another NAB Trip Report)... (LONG)

TVCmike wrote on 4/24/2004, 2:24 PM
I just got back from NAB and, after a day of rest, I'd like to share my thoughts on the whole show.

The show itself was huge. Obviously with 1500 exhibitors, you're going to have near chaos but it was manageable. Most of the video-related goods were in the central and south halls of the LV Convention Center. The only hall I didn't get a chance to go to was the North hall with the radio equipment, which is no surprise considering that covering an entire hall floor level in a day makes everything from the waist down hurt like hell. I only went for three of the four days of exhibits, but I found what I thought I needed to find.

The number of technologies on display on the floor were phenomenal. Being focused on the lower end of video editing workflow integration, some of the goods there were totally out of reach for anyone not in a large company. Some of these included SGI-based Discreet boxes, 2k editors like Da Vinci, high-end SAN storage goods, and the semiconductor products that underlie these products. There were companies showing off switchers, lighting, camera goods, cameras, (tons of) SDI switches/distamps, and innumerable NLEs of various shapes, sizes and forms. Basically, you had everything at this show you needed to create your own tv network, tv station, or production company.

There were a few recurring themes at the show that weren't necessarily apparent. They were as follows:

Media Management -

For as much as people complain about it here, it's still a significant issue even in the professional and broadcast space. There were several companies attempting to deal with this, but I have yet to see end-to-end media management for both production footage and stock footage. I kept telling folks that my clients would like a solution where their individual media is fully cataloged and indexed not only on content, but also on the licensing terms attached to it. Yes, there were some very slight incremental improvements like Premiere Pro's source media collation feature, but nothing on the scope that I was hoping for.

In fact, I raised some eyebrows at a couple of booths when I mentioned what I thought would be a great system for dealing with media licensing. Although their focus was on broadcast and network production media licensing and tracking, they were interested in talking to me about media management for independent content producers like many of the folks on this forum are. The overview I gave them was that a project should be initially defined by the target distribution audience, have fully indexed and cataloged media that can be included that's tagged with its license terms, and then based on the target distribution audience that the license scheme and costs be collated into a "super cue sheet." This is where all of the media in the project is either already covered by licensing or requires additional information of the copyright holder.

On the professional side they are moving towards this model, but on the lower-end NLE side it's still a bit lacking. Between licensing and cataloging, I was a bit disappointed yet hopeful that solutions will be developed in the next year. In fact, one of the most fascinating products on the floor was from Harris, where their broadcast equipment could actually do image and voice recognition of on-air material and tie that into a copyright database for license management. Extremely fascinating technology but, unfortunately, nothing that we'll see any time soon.

Media Archival -

Another one of my perpetual pet peeves is the lack of true archival media. Large tv stations have the luxury of tape robots that can be programmed to rotate and duplicate stock periodically, but many of the folks here have no such luxury. Whether it's miniDV tapes or DVDs, there was no significant presence by the media companies to address this very issue.

To their credit, both Maxell and TDK were on the show floor, but I was disappointed to see that nobody else was (or maybe I was just too tired to notice). I discussed the issues of optical and tape media longevity and the need for specific marketing of technologies, and the representatives from both companies agreed. I was even almost invited to negotiate on their behalf, though I merely recommended that their distributors be educated and actively promote high-quality high-longevity media. On that note, TDK now manufactures an "armored" DVD with UV-resistance that you can scratch with steel wool on the writing surface and basically have no issues. For media used daily, this will be a great product.

Media Online Storage -

There were a lot of companies showing their new hardware and software solutions for online media storage. The majority of these choices are for television stations and very large media houses. For independent content producers and smaller operations, there aren't as many choices. What's out there, however, is pretty interesting.

HUGE Systems has some new products that deliver multiple streams of DV or uncompressed over either Fiber Channel or Gigabit Ethernet. Medea also has similar products, and was across the aisle from HUGE. All of their solutions are in the $5k and up range depending on what amount of online storage you need. To take advantage of these storage solutions, you'll probably need a good workstation-class motherboard with PCI-X to handle the bandwidth needs of a Fiber Channel or Gigabit Ethernet adapter and still have enough left over for system I/O. They are available today depending on what you need.

In general, there is a trend to separate and treat the storage remotely from the editing box. Depending on the size of the producer and the content being created, this is only a good thing. With redundancy, hot swapping and special media management features, some of the new technologies will proliferate down to the lower end of the market within a couple of years. I personally can't wait to see what's out next year.

Compressed High Definition Formats/CODECs -

Lots of companies had some flavor of HD CODEC and DI format on display. The two major HD formats on display were HDV (a long-GOP IBP-frame MPEG-2-based compression at the same data rate as standard definition DV), and DVCPRO HD (an I-frame only compression scheme virtually identical to existing DV but roughly 4x the datarate).

There wree more editing solutions on the HDV side but, frankly, I'm nervous about the whole long-GOP MPEG-2 editing idea. Part of the advantage of DV was that each frame in the video was individually compressed which naturally lead to very minimal generational loss. One fellow I talked to at the Omneon booth who also writes for DV magazine is in agreement with me in saying that DVCPRO HD is probably going to be the superior CODEC. I also ended up in a somewhat-friendly argument with the Pinnacle folks about just this issue, and they were mostly clueless to this issue. Yes, it's easy to display multiple HDV streams, but what about light compositing of video sources, titles, and other effects?

Probably the most interesting technology in dealing with HD formats that I witnessed is the Cineform Prospect HD solution. The lower-end NLEs will finally have a hardware (HD-SDI) and software (digital intermediate HD CODEC) based solution. Yes, this does also include Vegas, though the HD-SDI card is being very quietly licensed from Mac-centric AJA. Apparently, in talking to the Aurora folks they're also willing to take on a developer who'll do the driver development and support of existing Aurora cards on the PC side. I also talked to the Bluefish 444 folks about Vegas HD support, and I'm not sure if they actually did get a chance to talk to Sony.

Ultimately, the difference is what will manifest itself in terms of mass-market uptake. Given the support of HDV on the show floor, I have to say that HDV will probably come out the winner in this regard because of its backwards compatibility with miniDV/DV hardware and overall support. For most editors, however, this is going to create some quality issues. I think a lot of this is going to have to be mitigated by clever management of source footage, because I don't see too many producers being able to deal with the generational loss effectively. I'd really like to see some options in terms of cameras and NLEs supporting the DVCPRO HD CODEC natively, because the data rates are still very manageable in terms of most producers' workflows. And yes, I hope Vegas also includes support for DVCPRO HD in the future.

On a final note, there were no cameras from Sony or Matsushita on display that were working with either HDV or DVCPRO HD on the low end of the scale, and the typical entry point for these cameras was around $4000. Lots of Varicam, HDCAM, XDCAM, and other high-end variants. I'm guessing it'll be at least a year before we really see these cameras proliferating into the hands of the smaller independent content producers in any reasonable quantity. While JVC has these cameras now, their feature set and quality leave a lot to be desired in my opinion.

NLEs -

We come to the part of the program that you've all been waiting for. There were lots of new NLE apps out there. Premiere Pro 1.5, Pinnacle Liquid HD, Final Cut Pro 4.1, Vegas 5, Edius 2 and a number of others were out there. They all had the familiar setup that most NLEs have, centered around the timeline. From that perspective, there were subtle but important interface enhancements as well as new capabilities. Most of the NLEs out on the floor were being demonstrated with some sort of HD technology, with or without DI. Lots of exhibitors had classrooms for feature overviews, including Sony, Apple and Discreet. None had the charm of the flashing blue Vegas 5 tags that were being given away, however.

The one thing that I will say about promotion at the show is that Apple had everyone on the show floor beat in terms of its presence. The overall impression I got was that they were the ubiquitous NLE on display. It was also hard to miss the 100 ft. tall banner on the south side of the Las Vegas Conference Center that said "Final Cut Pro HD." The irony is that there were many NLEs that did HD including Vegas 5, but none were as well promoted as FCP was or were in as many booths. I wish there was a bit of a perceptual change, because going to NAB you'd think that FCP HD was the proverbial second coming in NLEs (the first being, of course, Newtek's Video Toaster). It's unfortunate and will probably only reinforce the pseudo-omnipresent snobbishness of the FCP fanatics, but for those willing to look there were non-Apple solutions on the floor. I'd love to see a Vegas 6 banner up at NAB next year touting HD in the same way that Apple did, as well as working with companies demoing supporting technologies with Vegas. That would've generated considerable interest in my opinion and created a bit more balance at the show.

Despite all that was new, I don't think there was anything that spectacularly groundbreaking in NLE technologies. Avid Mojo DNA has been out since last year, so that wasn't particularly new though it was interesting to actually see it in action. I talked to Gennum about their new 2D image processors that handle everything in the HD space, and they apparently do realtime hardware-accelerated 2D scaling, color correction, deinterlacing and a number of other functions. I also talked to Nvidia about their new 3D processor line (GeForce FX6800), and they had a monster showing with their new HD-SDI card with genlock output. I know Canopus and Matrox had their new accelerated HD technologies, but it wasn't anything significantly different than the other folks were showing on any number of different software and hardware platforms. I did, however, mention to the Nvidia folks that they should be looking into integrating 2D and 3D acceleration along with utilizing the 3D GPU for acceleration of rendering. If some of these companies get their heads together, they could provide some spectacular hardware acceleration for HD and SD video effects. Sadly, nobody had realtime Gaussian blur a la Media 100 844/X but I was told it's being worked on by some of these companies. As I also mentioned above, media management is still a bit further off from what it could be in the NLE space. As a small side note, I did see almost all the NLEs using large plasma and LCD screens with DVI, and this may become another aspect of workflow enhancement to consider.

Specifically with regards to Vegas 5 and DVD Architect 2, I was impressed by the new capabilities and features of the software. The Mackie control surface demo was interesting, and all of the software there had a great showing. I was fortunate enough to go to the Monday night social where they offered a hosted bar and all-you-can-eat rack of lamb - something that made my relatives drool profusely upon being told of it. I met lots of folks from the forum including Spot and his wife, riredale, beerandchips, the original SoFo team, and quite a few others that my head can't wrap itself around because of my fatigue at the time. Suffice it to say that there was a proud showing for the Sony side and that things will get better. In fact, riredale and I even suggested some enhancements to this forum to Sony VP David Chaimson, so we'll see if they get implemented. I also went to the VASST breakfast on Wednesday morning as well as a few other events not related to this forum, and it was invariably a good time and very informative at all of the events.

After three or four solid days of walking and talking, kissing babies and shaking hands, giving and receiving business cards, it was time to call it a conference. If there's one thing I learned, only the diligent will pass muster and discover the real gems at the show. Passing underneath all of the hoopla and penetrating through it, one gets a real sense of how big this industry is and how the traditional lines of production technology are slowly being blurred. Paradigms are slowly but surely shifting. Perhaps in a decade or two we'll be talking about 2k and 4k editing, and that film may even go the way of the dodo if the imaging technologies fall into place. I highly recommend that you go if you get the opportunity if you didn't do so this year. The way people connected at that show was phenomenal, and the exchange of information and business opportunities was second to none if you're involved in any sort of video or audio content creation. The only problem now is waiting another year to see what will really crop up.

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 4/24/2004, 2:31 PM
>>>If there's one thing I learned, only the diligent will pass muster and discover the real gems at the show. <<<

Amen to that. What I really found interesting at the FCPUG gathering on Wednesday night, and at the FCP sessions I did, was that several FCP users were just as curious about the Vegas buzz as Vegas users seem to be about knocking FCP around.
Apple OWNS marketing in this space. They could release schlock and still sell a million of it. After meeting with some sales reps, the hardware numbers associated with FCP were downright scary once you consider what's in the space.
Regarding monitors, plasma will soon be the defacto standard, I think. I posted this a while back and had my head kicked, so I'm glad you noticed that at the show too. HDV will only be monitored on a plasma...Check out the Sony Luma monitors, they rock.
Meeting you at the Sony event and seeing you again at the breakfast was great. We'll do a bigger room next year, perhaps even a dinner event.
Liam_Vegas wrote on 4/24/2004, 2:50 PM
Plasma may indeed be the way... but I hope not. Did you feel the heat coming from those plasma displays at the Sony booth? You could feel the heat from four feet away!
Nat wrote on 4/24/2004, 2:59 PM
Are they gonna replace traditional monitors we edit on or preview monitors ?
Spot|DSE wrote on 4/24/2004, 4:21 PM
They'll replace external monitors-NTSC/PAL monitors. The cost of a CRT that can manage this much information is so dang high, it's much more feasible. Plus, CRT-based displays (televisions) are going to be gone in a reasonable future, so we need to monitor on what folks are buying for their home television systems.
With WMVHD being adopted as a platform/delivery mechanism, this is equally important/necessary. not today, not next month, but in the next 18-24 months? Likely so.
[i can hear the jackboots coming for my head now]
TVCmike wrote on 4/25/2004, 5:50 PM
It was great meeting you too. I was actually surprised to learn about the interest FCP users have in Vegas. Both are actually fine programs, and really most NLEs are half-decent anyway. If we have a dinner event, I hope we have double the turnout of this year. Maybe the new Vegas 5 + DVDA 2 will do just that. I don't think anyone can expect Vegas or most of the other NLEs to catch up to FCP but having alternatives will always be beneficial.

As for monitors, I tell my clients to always view on a broadcast monitor or some other bright display device. That usually means CRT or Plasma. I don't believe most LCDs are capable of fulfilling that function properly simply because their luminance capabilities relative to their contrast ratios is mostly not that hot. We are at least seeing some much-needed convergence between computing and consumer/prosumer electronics.
B_JM wrote on 4/25/2004, 6:15 PM
since our customeers are having to replace thier plasma's every 2 years (better than the one year it used to be) , and that I have to render everything special just for plasma -- i hope they are not/become a standard , though nice to work with size wise (i have one in front of me, along with other monitors) .

I really look at them as a toy or a marketing aid or comericial display at times ..

since they are so costly to build and short lived -- i suspect you will see more and more the lcd market replace them ..

though plasma have got real cheap -- i can buy 42" for just bairly over 1000$ for oem raw units (no case) wholesale in as low as 5 unit lots ..

SonyEPM wrote on 4/25/2004, 6:22 PM
"I don't think anyone can expect Vegas or most of the other NLEs to catch up to FCP..."

???????????? I challenge this statement. Put a skilled editor in front of FCP and Vegas. Point both editors to a bunch of media both apps can read. Instruct each editor to whip out a 3 minute music video & a 30 second spot without dumping out to another app; deliver on DVD, web video and DV (both apps support all 3 of these standard delivery delivery formats). End result has to have cool graphics, good cutting, must look fabulous, must have a Primo soundtrack, must have excellent encoding for all delivery formats. I'll bet money Vegas kicks FCP's a** in this test 9/10 times, and I bet the start to finish time is faster in Vegas also.

FCP is good enough, but don't buy into the hype and believe that its some problem free gleaming masterpiece with no flaws. If you do, you are a sucker. Check out what the users have to say: http://www.creativecow.net/index.php?forumid=8

Oh, and don't forget the FCP user paid much more than you did for the app and the hardware in every case.
B_JM wrote on 4/25/2004, 6:34 PM
SonyEPM -- i thought that was a joke that that was said !

i guess maybe not ....

DataMeister wrote on 4/25/2004, 8:01 PM
Sony,

The trick now is to kick in more hype than FCP is getting. Maybe then we'll catch up and people will take notice. I'm sure NAB was a good start. Just don't let it drop till next year. There's a lot of ground to cover, including getting a few feature films edited on Vegas the way FCP had a hand in Cold Mountain.

JBJones
TVCmike wrote on 4/25/2004, 8:15 PM
Ok, let me clarify my statement just a bit here...

In terms of hardware support, there are a lot of exclusive vendors who are not going to support Vegas or anything else on the PC. As I said, I talked to AJA and they will NOT be supporting anything on the PC platform. I'd love to see an AJA Firewire uncompressed SD box supported on Vegas, but it will likely never happen. Aurora basically said the same thing. Bluefish 444 said they'd wander by your booth after I talked with them, but it'll be at least until next year until anything materializes IF it actually does. Even Cineform's Prospect HD isn't quite ready yet. Part of that is also the fact that you need a workstation-class I/O to deal with uncompressed video and be able to have the supporting storage. The 32-bit 33MHz PCI bus simply isn't cutting it any more, and AGP is reserved for the graphics card. On the Mac side, the G5s have supported PCI-X since last year, and this has provided additional impetus for hardware manufacturers to push upwards. I lament the fact that there aren't as many hardware capture solutions for folks on the PC platform with this NLE. Hopefully, the adoption of PCI Express will alleviate this soon, though - again - I must stress that I do realize the vast majority of content edited on these systems is in low-bandwidth DV25 format with not too many realtime streams.

In terms of software support, I discussed MXF, AAF, EDL and other export formats for offlining. Vegas simply doesn't have that yet, and talking to some of the folks there didn't seem to be a clear answer to that question. Maybe it's being planned. Maybe not. It really doesn't matter in a way, because there is a portion of the market that simply doesn't need to offline anyway. In a way it does matter because it's perceived as a gateway to the major leagues of editing. As I've said before, I'm more or less agnostic to the platform and software, but Vegas's bang for the buck can't be beat for most folks. That's why I try to steer folks towards it unless they have a specific need for film offlining. Even my one client who occasionally shoots in 16mm usually just gets it transferred to DV tape at a local establishment. There are other issues that are slowly being flushed out, but even the nested timeline issue was difficult. I talked with folks about this and, while there are workarounds, people simply have a certain way of working with an NLE that makes it appear to be deficient. The way around this is, again, good marketing and documentation if that's the case. It'd just be nice to have this as a feature if for no other reason than to be another missing checkbox on the competitor's NLE comparison list.

Specifically with regards to FCP, it simply has a reputation and a big backing. Just like the Beta vs. VHS argument, and (IMO sadly) HDV versus DVCPRO HD, the best format may not make it out of the gate for the mass market. FCP is a great app. It's not the penultimate app for every application, and I have already said that the bang for the buck of a comparable Apple system is about half that of a Vegas system. It does have certain capabilities which are not present in Vegas or other NLEs, however. Avid is sort of the same story where, if you really want to deal with Avid upstream, you have to use Avid through most of the flow. It's a trap to be sure, but Avid has options that are not available on other NLEs.

There's another larger issue here, and that's the fact that Sony owns Vegas now. Apple's strategy has shifted towards video editing in the last two years and they have zero loyalty to any particular hardware or software company. They simply want to be in the hands of as many folks as possible, and they're in a great position to do that. They certainly showed it on the NAB show floor. Companies without solid NLE apps may gravitate towards them because there is a complementary rather than competitive relationship. For example, is it possible that Sony corporate prevents full EDL/AAF/MXF export from Vegas in order to lock into Sony XPRI for onlining? That could be, but I don't know and I certainly have no firm basis to believe it. The workflows from what I've seen are geared towards different markets. It is, however, possible. I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing, it's just what is. I had the same issues when I worked for Agere's semiconductor business three years ago; namely, that our tie to a comms equipment manufacturer (Lucent) made bulding relationships with customers competing with Lucent difficult for fear of trade secret misappropriation and conflict of interest. It's just a fact of life that may be contributing to what's going on.

And on that note, I have no problem if Vegas doesn't become #1 in the desktop NLE market provided that it stays viable. I'd like to see it as #1, however. I've actually used Avid Xpress *, Final Cut Pro, Premiere Pro, Pinnacle Studio, Ulead Mediastudio Pro, and Vegas. I will say I'm not an expert at any of them. Looking at it completely objectively, however, Vegas is about 99% of the way there - particularly in terms of its usability for the average editor. I recommend Vegas almost exclusively unless the client has a particular personal preference or workflow need. As I said in my original post, media management is still a big issue for all NLEs. I hope someone at Sony takes notice, because there are features that are not too far beyond the level of scripts that could be integrated that could make this THE NLE app. Two key aspects that were missing from the Vegas side were the crazy marketing blitz and presence at other booths that FCP did have. Perception is reality for some folks, like it or not, and good MARCOM will help with that significantly. Apple had it. Sony can have it too. If you need help with this, I'd be more than happy to offer my services in developing a broader promotional strategy with my business and engineering background.
Cheesehole wrote on 4/25/2004, 8:16 PM
I thought he just meant catch up marketting / sales wise - not so much technological but I could be wrong. Anyway Vegas is a different animal. A music video is the perfect challenge... Vegas would win for sure ;) I actually hope the NLE war doesn't suck Vegas in... I like its unique feature set and would hate to see it start to get homogenized.

btw - TVC Mike thanks a lot for the great read.
busterkeaton wrote on 4/25/2004, 10:27 PM
<pendantic>
If Vegas were to move past FCP, then FCP would be the penultimate app since it would in second place.

</pendantic>

TVCmike wrote on 4/25/2004, 10:52 PM
I'm of course comparing it to the extreme high end of the market (e.g. SGI Tezro running Discreet * or some such) but I digress. If you can't do something on one of those systems, you probably can't do it at all.
vitamin_D wrote on 4/25/2004, 11:34 PM
<pendantic>

<pedantic> actually... it's pedantic </pedantic>

Really great post TVCmike. Guess my rants about media management and EDL were a little ahead of their time -- I don't see anyone dogpiling you :D


- jim

busterkeaton wrote on 4/25/2004, 11:51 PM
lol. that is correct.

I guess I had penultimate on the brain
Jay_Mitchell wrote on 4/26/2004, 12:29 AM
What a difference a year makes.

Last year, Vegas 4 was released just before NAB. Excitement and Anticipation was High. The Product was Great and could hold it's own against many NLE's. But, many who attended NAB 2003 thought that SoFo's Vegas 4 Presence was minimal, at best. The reality of course was that a Sony Buyout was iminent and that a NAB budget was almost non existant.

At the same NAB - FCP 4 was being released. Apple threw alot of Money into their NAB Presence, Marketing, User Group Support and Party. It looked like a lopsided win for FCP4. I can remember all of the anxiety on the Vegas Forums about Vegas's Uncertain Future.

But, being a Loyal Vegas User and Group Leader set me in motion to convey to Sony that if they were going to give FCP a run for the money - they would have to take certain action.

1. Increase The Vegas 5 Exposure and Presence at NAB
2. Make Giant Steps into the Professional Market
3. Advertize, Advertize, Advertize
4. Support and Acknowledge the Vegas Users Groups

I am now very happy to say that Vegas is here to stay and alot of FCP eyes are now looking our way. The Mighty Apple Oriented Promax is now going to build Vegas Systems. Unthinkable, a year ago. The Marketing Budget for Vegas 5 is Huge and Strategy will make everyone happy.

No, Vegas is Not Perfect - Yet. But, there is not one of us who does not believe that it won't get there. If there is a feature set or hardware support that you would like to see in Vegas - don't be afraid to send in a letter or two.
It goes alot further than aynonomus whining on the forums. I can personally assure everybody that we are all represented well by the hard working team in Madison.

I've been to more than a dozen NAB's in my career. And this is the first one in which I never got out of the Multimedia Hall in my four days there.

I couldn't be any more happy with Sony than I am right now. I wish that everyone could feel it too. Maybe, Liam Kennedy and I will Stream out the Video of the Vegas Users Meeting / Party for all of you see. What Sony did in Support of it's Vegas Users was Teriffic!

And, TVCmike - I too enjoyed the Rack of Lamb and Mint Jelly. And, it was a pleasure meeting you.

Jay Mitchell

SCVUG Host










busterkeaton wrote on 4/26/2004, 1:31 AM
I think the Promax step is going to be a big deal, at the very least, symbolically.
busterkeaton wrote on 4/26/2004, 9:07 AM
I took Sony EPM's advice above and wandered over the the CC FCP forum. This comment from a FCP user who installed FCP HD and now cannot edit made me laugh:

This is a really suck-@ss situation! Nothing is working and now I'm thinking it's going to take a full rebuild since there's no way I've found to cleanly uninstall final cut and reinstall it.
TVCmike wrote on 4/26/2004, 11:03 AM
Jay, it was great meeting you too. Sorry I forgot to mention you in the original post.

Like I said, Vegas is really my first preference to recommend for folks. It's just really intuitive and powerful and stable. It's not a literally do-everything tool, and sometimes folks will do side-by-side comparisons on feature checklists and make decisions on factors that may not generally affect them. It really is, however, so close to being the ultimate desktop NLE in an absolute sense. Heck, I've seriously considered becoming a VAR for Vegas systems and focusing strictly on this in the Canadian market. It's nice that Promax is realizing the potential now, and I'm sure there's momentum.

I really want my comments to come off as constructive rather than unnecessarily critical. In fact, I consider DVDA2 to be exceptional software that addressed many of the concerns that other folks had. I don't consider many NLEs to be outright bad other than the awful UIs of the consumer-oriented NLEs (Ulead Videostudio, anyone?). That promotion of Vegas has to happen, and I'm willing to help in any way I can.

Hopefully next year we'll have a room 3x as big and a sit-down dinner like you and Douglas have mentioned. It's only getting better and better...
TVCmike wrote on 4/26/2004, 11:10 AM
I think this is typical of every new release that you see. I certainly would hope people would form their opinions of the product on its broader features. G5 FCP systems are powerful but rather tricky to deal with their BSD underpinnings. I also don't think it'd be representative of what FCP HD will be once the bugs are worked out. I haven't checked too much of the Premiere Pro 1.5 buzz either lately, but I'm sure it's the same story there.

Jobs is both smart and dumb at the same time. While I'd rather not touch the subject of his "jewelry" per the FCP forum post, I still disagree with the overall value proposition of an FCP system from the hardware standpoint. I can still take a 3.4GHz P4 and have it run circles around a dual-G5 in MPEG-2 rendering and still come in at half the price hardware-wise. The great majority of people are also not doing anything but DV editing. Therefore, unless there was a critical workflow integration issue or tools not available on a PC-based platform, I wouldn't typically recommend an FCP system. After all, being the workflow integration guy, I'd hate to be the one on the receiving end of a kick between the legs because I'm the guy who's actually going to be there, not Steve Jobs.
StormMarc wrote on 4/26/2004, 12:22 PM
SONY EPM,

I think your 3 minute example is probably right. But would it also be the case for a 30 minute video or 2 hour documentary with hundreds of media files? I personally really enjoy editing in Vegas but was hoping for more long form editing advancements and better titling in V5 or at least some assurance that that is coming soon. I realize many people do not have these needs but for those of us that do it makes us look elsewhere. I am looking at other options right now because of the lack of certain media management and more advanced trim capabilities that programs like Avid, FC and Premiere have.

I think the Vegas team is amazing and can obviously do anything they put there mind to but utimately I have to go with what fits my edit needs. I know I'll get flamed as a crybaby but I'm just voicing these thoughts in the hopes that Vegas will become the ultimate edit program because I do think it is very close and still has the lead in many areas. That lead will not last forever though...Canopus comes to mind. Canopus had a great product with the Storm card but they never updated their plugin software abilities (keyframing, color correction etc.) and eventually Matrox made a better card and the software was suddenly much more advanced. I'm not saying that will happen to Vegas and Sony is obviously going forward but if they do not address all users issues eventually the other companies may copy all of the great features of Vegas (as Adobe is starting to do) and bypass them in other areas (titling, trimming, sequences etc).

Vegas appears to be going in the direction of an AE replacement that is also a great editor making an all in one tool. I think that's a great direction but if you could also address some of the media managment/trimming/titling issues that users of Avid, Premiere etc. expect I think you could gain many more converts. Of course I'm not privy to what your direction is but hope these are points you're considering.

Thanks for listening...

Marc