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Videoon 2/3/2023
32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering
@ALO Thanks for bringing this problem to our attention. I am able to reproduce it as you initially described. Yes this is a bug and I will add a report to our defect tracking system so it can be fixed in a future release. As others recommended, it would be best to use the color curve section of Color Grading instead of the classic Color Curves plugin in 32-bit projects. @VEGASNeal1 unfortunately I have been able to replicate this problem with 10-bit 422 4k XAVC HS (HEVC) 60P 100 Mbps footage shot on a Sony FX30. In this new case, the issue occurs when the Color Curves fx is preceded by a levels fx and a Color Correction (Secondary) fx with a chrominance adjustment. This issue may be a little deeper than it first appears. Please PM me if you want a project file and source clip.
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Videoon 2/3/2023
Best Way To Increase The Saturation Of Video
As a starting point, assuming your color balance is correct, the best way to add saturation is to add contrast via the Color Curves fx or the Curves in the Color Grading panel.
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Videoon 2/1/2023
Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?
@Illusion thanks -- I didn't know that!
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Videoon 2/1/2023
Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?
With 32b FR timeline, you simply have to choose Color Space at render time (as @Howard-Vigorita pointed out just above) . I never mess with semw or computer to studio fx at all. Simple streamlined workflow. Edit: I don't need to conform anything to 32FR, Vegas does it for me. This is my GoPro footage, notice the Color Space, Vegas sets that based on the file metadata. Ah -- you're using Vokoder. That explains how you're getting full-range instead of video levels from your 32-FR renders. Like you, I prefer to work on the Vegas timeline in 0-255 for obvious reasons, but I always have to deliver to video levels, so adding the output levels fx doesn't bother me (when needed). With 8-bit footage, I prefer to conform it myself, because a lot of the time I like the extra headroom. As I am probably now shifting to 10-bit log, I will have to learn how to do everything all over again. :)
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Videoon 2/1/2023
Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?
I only do the rough cut in 8b FR. Once done, I switch to 32b FR, Gamma 2.222, View transform to off. My PC is able to playback 32b FR without issues for the projects I am doing. My delivery format is HEVC in full range. I no longer mess with Limited range. So my question is, if you use 32-FR with view transform off and gamma set to video, is there any difference between that and 32-VL plus a computer-to-studio fx for output rendering? Edit -- actually I see you don't even need the levels correction -- you want to output to FR, which 32-video levels will do for you automatically (provided you conform your footage as you edit on the timeline). And wait a minute -- doesn't 32-FR output video levels to HEVC?
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Videoon 2/1/2023
Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?
If older filters like the CC secondary work in the 32bit project settings in the same way as in the 8bit mode - well, they should. But those filters were developed for the 8bit world, and if you use them in a 32bit pipeline is always dangerours. I use Color Corrector (Secondary) all the time and it works spectacularly well for me in all my projects regardless of media. Most commonly to tweak specific colors. Like to juice the costume of a dancer. Or to do area-specific brightness/contrast adjustments under irregular stage lighting. Or to knockout burned-out elements of a scene, for instance when bright outside light shines through a window in an otherwise well-exposed indoor shot. I only use CC Secondary when I need to generate a dynamic adjustment mask. That's a mask defined by brightness-, saturation-, and/or color-ranges. The mask will then work on moving video without key-frames, motion tracking, or AI. With very high performance. Although these unique dynamic masks can do their own internal adjusting, that's just for starters. They can also be stacked with other FX to limit what they operate on. Like Brightness/Contrast or Style Transfer. Or to create dynamic knockouts, like Chroma Keyer on steroids. I've found CC Secondary to be one of the most flexible and powerful tools in Vegas. After I took the time to figure out how the masking works and dream-up ways to use it. agree -- CC (Secondary) is one of Vegas' most useful plugins!
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Videoon 2/1/2023
Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?
And there's an explanation in this video of why there's gamma 1.0 (linear) or 2.222 (as for me who don't know about the reason behind that (seriously!)) I believe the video you linked to is describing capture gamma. The gamma in the Vegas project properties field is compositing gamma, which is not quite the same thing: https://www.provideocoalition.com/gamma_intro/
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Videoon 2/1/2023
Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?
Have you checked the behaviour in the color grading panel? I would either stay in the 8bit mode, or stay in the 32bit mode. I am aware that one major driver to switch between both modes could be performance issues. Even high end pcs will help only partly. Well, that was a good suggestion, but unfortunately, yes, the same thing happens in the CG panel. I'm testing using the Offset wheel in the GG panel, and I see exactly the same behavior. So the good news is there's nothing wrong with Vegas' Color Corrector (Secondary) plugin (I think). The bad news is there's no way to edit in an 8-bit mode and then render out in 32-bit FR unless you're willing to regrade whatever effects you've added. I guess creating an intermediate in 32FR for playback might help? I'm guessing virtually no hardware is going to be capable of smooth 4K playback in 32FR once you start adding fx. ------------------- on the subject of levels: I generally prefer to manage levels myself, since that's how Vegas used to work. For a long time I was not happy that Vegas forced me to do that, but I've come to appreciate that I learned a lot because of it. Vegas Tough Love!
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Videoon 1/31/2023
Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?
Do your grading in 32-bit full and then return to 8-bit full for playback? I do wish we had a better option, although aside from the nicer crossfades, I'm not sure the 1.0 gamma in 32FR makes much difference in my workflow. Maybe it's easier to control the density across different brightness zones with the Color Curves fx?
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Videoon 1/31/2023
Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?
Please, have a look to this picture here again. As far as I see, there is no need to regrade all your clips. But you have to apply the settings as suggested here. But please test it by yourself! I think the issue is not the levels changing, it's what happens when other fx get involved. The CC (Secondary) is a good plugin to test because you can apply a global color offset using the chrominance wheel (my preferred way to color correct). When I do that, switching between the two modes with your recommended settings, unfortunately I do see a color shift which would necessitate regrading everything on the timeline.
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Videoon 1/31/2023
Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?
Of course ACES is different- it uses info about the media and transforms it into its own color space which no other mode does. View transform needs to be kept off to stay in 32 bit full mode. I assume you changed gamma to 2.2 to match the 8-bit full project? Roger you're right -- if you change the gamma to 2.2 to match the 8-bit project's, then it looks like my experiment with the CC (Secondary) plugin gives the same results. But again: why do I want to do that? At that point, I've just gone through several clicks to get to where I was with the 32-bit video levels option. Yes, maybe I'd like to use 32FR's linear 1.0 gamma (I would, actually), but there's no way I'm aware of to go from 8-bit FR to 32FR (1.0) without having to regrade my clips. Wolfgang, am I wrong about that?
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Videoon 1/30/2023
Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?
Ok, out of curiosity I tried grading some 8-bit source (just a simple color correction) with the Color Corrector (Secondary) plugin which is listed as 32-bit compatible. Here's 8-bit FR: Here's the same project switched to 32VL: Easy peasy -- looks exactly the same. I can add my levels fx to correct the output and render out no problems. Now here's 32FR with view transform off: Uh-oh. Clearly not the same. How about 32FR with view transform set to sRGB and clip properties set to sRGB to match: Nope. Doesn't match, either. I say no thanks. I'll stick with the 32VL workflow when I need 32-bit math. Life is too short for ACES...
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Videoon 1/30/2023
Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?
You should be able to work in 8-bit full, and then for rendering switch to 32-video levels, add a computer-to-studio levels fx on the output bus, and be done. @ALO The SeMW extension or Level FX are only needed if you want to edit in limited-range and have the render resemble what you saw in the Vegas preview. SeMW uses the Vegas Level FX but disables it automatically when rendering. You could use the Vegas Level FX without SeMW when you edit but you'd have to turn it off manually before rendering. Otherwise the render won't match what you looked at when editing. Neither the Level FX or SeMW are needed if you work with a full-range project instead. My motivation to edit in full-range is to get rid of them both. And be more done than merely done. With no other fx, grading changes, or view-transforms. I think I got it. The 32-video levels workflow I describe has the advantage of being easy to understand and shouldn't (I think) result in less image quality compared to going directly from 8-bit full to 32-bit full. I stopped rendering out in 32 FR a few years ago because I got tired of all the strange issues that kept popping up. I agree, if the current version of Vegas does a better job going from 8FR to 32FR, that would be the better workflow (although it does involve either turning off the view transform or getting your ACES properties set correctly on a per-clip basis).
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Videoon 1/29/2023
Your preferred 32bit Full Range Pixel Format Workflow / Pipeline ?
I think Vegas' 32-Full implementation is a bit strange and (I may be wrong here) unnecessary for what you're thinking. You should be able to work in 8-bit full, and then for rendering switch to 32-video levels, add a computer-to-studio levels fx on the output bus, and be done. If all goes well (ie, you've chosen 32-bit compatible plugins for your project), that should let you edit in 8-bit mode and then render out with the advantages of 32-bit math without having to readjust everything when you switch project properties. Fingers crossed!
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Videoon 1/29/2023
32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering
Nobody out-crazies me :)
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Videoon 1/27/2023
32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering
Just want to emphasize that this thread specifically focuses on an issue related to Vegas' 32-bit video levels mode. 32FR gets into ACES stuff which is another topic entirely
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Videoon 1/26/2023
32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering
@ALO On my laptop I don't see it, look j-v try it in project-properties --> pixel formal --> 32-bit floating point (video levels). I don't ever work in 32/full -- sounds like that's where illusion noticed an issue with A7C footage. I'll see if I can repo that my main system is a current Dell XPS laptop with an NVIDIA GPU enabled
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Videoon 1/26/2023
32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering
The HEVC fix was the heart of the update and for stability. I'm happy they kept building out features like the color grading panel selective color abilities too as it felt incomplete at launch. Well, me being old-school Vegas I'd love to see the curves-vs-curves features in the grading panel available as an fx for the traditional clip-based fx chain. Here's a share link for a clip from my RX100 M5 if anyone wants to play around with it: https://ufile.io/7io8ksdy Click the "free" download option. That should be available for up for 30 days and claims no malware. To replicate, open Vegas, drag the clip onto the timeline (I have properties set to automatically match). Add the Color Curves FX at the clip level, then drag the left handle to brighten/darken the image. Everything should look fine. Now change the project properties to 32-bit video levels, go back and drag the handle around again. If you're going to see it, it'll be obvious.
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Videoon 1/26/2023
32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering
I thought this last update was the "stability" one but maybe I misunderstood that. @Illusion as it happens I have an A7C also and didn't think to test it. Unfortunately (fortunately??), I can't replicate this with clips from my A7C. My body is running firmware version 2.0. Maybe your camera is running an older firmware version?
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Videoon 1/25/2023
32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering
I appreciate you pointing out a viable workaround. I do, however, prefer to work with the old-school fx interface, and if Magix is intending to deprecate it, I would appreciate formal notification of that.
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Videoon 1/25/2023
32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering
OK, I seem to remember the old color curve effect being from a very ancient version of VEGAS (perhaps even the first to offer video?) and it was never updated to be compatible with 10 bit media, so you need to use the CGP one to not have it mess up your media. That said, I only remembered it clamping nit values to 100 nits when editing HDR, as if it were 8 bit media... not causing decoding errors. I'd still recommend against using it for anything above 8 bit. The CGP panel one is better anyway, it's easier to make edits to the bezier points and such, as the handles are displayed larger. The Vegas Color Curves plugin is listed in the 32-bit compatible fx panel, so I think it ought to work in 32-bit mode. Are you suggesting we should ignore this?
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Videoon 1/25/2023
32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering
I am seeing a variation of the problem using footage from my A7C. For me, I see black frames. This is frame 217 Frame 218 Frame 219 Frame 220 Only happens with 32b project. 8b is fine. Does this involve the Color Curves FX on the clip, or does it happen without ? I will upload a clip of my RX100 M5 so others can test, and I'll also put together a short screenshot video of what I do to trigger the issue
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Videoon 1/25/2023
32-Bit Video Renders Brightness Flickering
I can replicate this on my other machines (which have different GPU's), but only for the Sony RX100 clips. 8-bit Sony XAVC S from my FX30 works fine. So I can live with that. The RX100 M5 is a relatively old camera (2019ish?), and maybe there's something funny about those old files. If this appears with any other format I use, I'll make a note of it, otherwise probably nothing worth bothering with here.
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Videoon 1/25/2023
Sony FX30 XAVC-HS Broken in 32-Bit Mode
I can't replicate this in VP build 326 -- I believe that means it's fixed. Thank you Vegas team!
ALO
Offline, Last login 11/16/2023, Member since 10/26/2016