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Videoon 10/25/2022
What system component is most important to preview speed?
So, in writing this up... I'm maybe answering myself, but I think the most important to preview speed might be single-threaded performance (only one thread shows higher usage when everything chugs) combined with GPU performance... combined with Vegas not being well optimized. Anyone have any thoughts? Like you I was a Vegas user from Vegas 4.0 all the way up to Vegas 20 which is the last version I've purchased, I've used it for almost two decades. Long story short Vegas just doesn't make good use of hardware. I've since switched 100% over to Davinci Resolve because of this very reason as Resolve makes excellent use of hardware. For example my Dell XPS 15 laptop with an i7-11800H cpu and little NVidia 3050ti gpu is able to breeze through the timeline with 200mbps HEVC 4:2:2 video footage, no problems at all whereas Vegas totally chokes on it. Likewise Resolve will max out the gpu at 100% during renders, it just makes excellent use of available resources unlike Vegas which just can't seem to. I just didn't see this situation ever changing so I've moved on as I don't think throwing more hardware at the problem will ever fix Vegas's performance issues. Perhaps not the answer you wanted to hear but it's the conclusion I came to as a long time Vegas user. Likewise this will likely be my last post here. Best of luck!
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Videoon 8/19/2022
Laggy... everything.
Yeah this particular Intel gpu does indeed support hardware decode of HEVC 4:2:2. On Resolve during timeline playback the cpu is only at 12% use so it's mostly snoozing and the Intel gpu is at around 40% use, mostly of the video decoder. Anyways it is what it is, I'll just stick to Resolve for HEVC work, no biggie.
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Videoon 8/18/2022
Laggy... everything.
For those curious I finally got a chance to test this. Using my Sony A7S3 I recorded some footage in HEVC 200mbps 4:2:2 10bit 60fps which is the best mode the camera offers. I didn't add any effects, just put the raw footage on the timeline. Vegas 20 timeline playback is around 4fps (unusable) whereas Resolve plays it back easily at full 60fps on my little Dell XPS 15 9510 laptop. I tried disabling legacy HEVC playback in Vegas 20 as well but it didn't help. In both cases it's using the Intel gpu for video decoding. In Vegas 20 I had the timelime set to "Best Full", in Resolve I had timeline set as 4k.
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Videoon 8/15/2022
Laggy... everything.
I've heard a lot of success by disabling the legacy HEVC decoder in file i/o settings as well, in addition to driver issues. Reality, it's possible Resolve is better utilizing the nvidia GPU to do the decoding, whereas VEGAS splits the load and can assign one GPU to the timeline acceleration and one to decoding, often which it assigns intel GPUs to if available... so it's possible that in VEGAS, it's using intel to decode, and there's an issue with that driver on your system causing trouble. Worth checking out. Ah I'll have to try disabling the legacy HEVC decoder, thanks for that. Regarding drivers, it's a bit weird on this particular Dell as I recently found out. So if you install Intel's driver update app it will install newer versions of the video drivers compared to Dell's driver update app. Seems like a good thing at first but I found when I did that the entire system ran horribly, with poor performance on everything even outside of Vegas. So I uninstalled Intel's driver update app, re-ran Dell's to have it install an older version of the Intel Graphics Driver and poof the system ran great like usual. Very weird I know but the moral of the story is on the Dell XPS 15 just stick with Dell's "Support For XPS 15" for driver updates. They may be older, but looks like they are actually tested specifically for the XPS 15. So I have the latest drivers as provided by Dell. I should check how Vegas compares to Resolve as far as what gpu it's using for decode on the timeline with HEVC, I'll do more testing on this when I get back home in a few days. I've read that spec wise the Intel gpu is actually better than NVidia's for video decode because it apparently supports more formats and presumably does not need to do any main memory to gpu memory copies just to decode, but I guess I'll see.
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Videoon 8/15/2022
Laggy... everything.
Interesting, I have the older Dell XPS 15 with NVidia 3050ti but a 11th gen Intel cpu and 32gb ram. I've never been able to get it to play back HEVC smoothly on the timeline in Vegas 19 even with the latest drivers, whereas Resolve can do it just fine on the same machine with the same drivers. Hence I gave up and have been sticking with h264 source for now as I assumed Vegas was not compatible with HEVC as far as timeline goes. I'll have to revisit all this on Vegas 20.
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Videoon 8/10/2022
VEGAS 20 is Here!
I got Voukoder working on V20, made a post about it here: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/vegas-20-compatibility-with--136679/#ca854211
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Videoon 8/10/2022
Vegas 20 Compatibility with...
How did you guys get Voukoder working on V20? I reinstalled the Voukoder app and connector but it still only appears as a render option in V19, nowhere to be seen in V20. I also tried manually copying the Voukoder files over from my V19 install, but that didn't work either. EDIT: Ok I got Voukoder working in V20, it takes three steps: 1) Copy the "FileIO Plug-Ins\voukoderplug" folder from your V19 directory into the V20 directory 2) Copy the "Voukoder-x64.fio2007-config" file from your V19 directory into the V20 directory 3) At this point Voukoder will appear as a render option but it won't actually work. To make it work I had to customize my Voukoder render profile, make some changes, save it out again, then I was able to render successfully with Voukoder in V20.
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Videoon 8/10/2022
VEGAS 20 is Here!
Just installed Vegas 20, do you guys know if there is anything special needed to get Voukoder working with V20? I reinstalled the app and connector for it just in case, but it still only seems to appear as a render option on V19 and not on V20.
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Videoon 8/10/2022
VEGAS 20 is Here!
Ok I'll bite, where can I download this? I bought Vegas 20 but it doesn't appear in my Magix account when I log into the admin, and checking for updates on Vegas 19 also shows nothing :(
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Videoon 7/23/2022
Vegas Pro 20 Sneak Peek
I've tried a bunch of editors as well, Final Cut Pro crashed so much on me that I gave up on it and I absolutely loathe Premiere Pro. Resolve is great though and I have the full paid version that I used for specific things, however I still do also use Vegas (been using it since version 4) and I just ordered the Vegas 20 upgrade. It is nice having options so I keep both Vegas and Resolve installed.
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Videoon 7/22/2022
Vegas Pro 20 Sneak Peek
If Magix would quit wasting time and money releasing products that compete against VEGAS and actually put some resources behind VEGAS, that might actually happen. The fact that Magix is willing to invest in new engines for their competing products, but not VEGAS, is telling as to where their priorities lie. That's one of the reasons I feel Vegas will never really be fixed. Although truth be told given how old Vegas is, it's possible it contains hooks to so much legacy code going back decades that "fixing" Vegas may not be possible without a ground up re-write which would likely break backward compatibility. Maybe it makes more sense for them to string Vegas along with patches for as long as people keep buying it, while simultaneously working on their other more modern software in hopes that people migrate to that over time?
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Videoon 4/27/2022
GPU RENDER COMPARISON - RX570 DESKTOP v RX6800M LAPTOP
Yeah it can be really weird and unpredictable. I just installed Vegas on my desktop gaming pc as a backup in case my laptop dies and I did render tests to make sure it all worked. To my surprise with both using Vegas 19, my little Dell XPS 15 laptop with NVidia 3050ti gpu encodes *faster* than my gaming pc which has a desktop NVidia 3080 with both using HEVC NVENC! Makes no sense to me but it is what it is. You have identical settings in Vegas on the both computers? What is the CPU and ram on both? @RealityStudio Vegas settings identical on both. Laptop is 32gb with 11th gen Intel 8 core, desktop is 16gb with 10th gen Intel 8 core, but ram and cpu were mostly unused so they shouldn't matter too much in my case, gpu's were around 88% or so use on both, was using Voukoder. But I don't wanna thread steal, just made that post to show how unpredictable performance can be across machines.
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Videoon 4/27/2022
GPU RENDER COMPARISON - RX570 DESKTOP v RX6800M LAPTOP
If there is one thing I've learnt - editing software is finnicky and sensitive. All of them. My dream is (far) less time line crashes and buttery smooth time line scrubbing. I've yet to experience it - ever. Yeah it can be really weird and unpredictable. I just installed Vegas on my desktop gaming pc as a backup in case my laptop dies and I did render tests to make sure it all worked. To my surprise with both using Vegas 19, my little Dell XPS 15 laptop with NVidia 3050ti gpu encodes *faster* than my gaming pc which has a desktop NVidia 3080 with both using HEVC NVENC! Makes no sense to me but it is what it is. Effective use of your hardware and stability are not Vegas's forte alas, it's very quick and easy to use but the cost is slower performance and crashes. I've been using Vegas since version 4 but I've slowly been switching to Resolve which for me has been far more stable and makes much better use of hardware. Although even for that your mileage may vary, like people heap praise on Final Cut Pro but it crashed so many times on me in under an hour that I gave up on it, so who knows.
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Videoon 3/9/2022
VEGAS Pro 19 Update 4 (Build 550)
RealityStudio: i copied and pasted the link to a new chrome page Thanks, that downloaded in 13 seconds lol, perfect. I had to remove that dot at the end as well.
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Videoon 3/9/2022
VEGAS Pro 19 Update 4 (Build 550)
Anyone have a working way to get the update? The auto update looks like will take 6 hours to download at this pace, selecting "check for updates" in the app crashes the app, and trying the direct download link for me doesn't do anything at all.
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Videoon 1/15/2022
VEGAS PRO REMAINS IN CPU AFTER CLOSED
From my experience this happens when you are primarily using an Intel gpu. When I used a desktop with an NVidia 1080ti (no igpu) this never happened, then for a while I switched to a laptop that only had an Intel Iris Xe gpu and Vegas would never close properly. Now I use a different laptop with an NVidia 3050ti and once again Vegas closes properly. As others have said it's a bug that has been there for many many years so I presume it will never be fixed. For what it's worth I also have a Mac Mini M1 as I was trying out both Final Cut Pro and Davinci Resolve to compare to Vegas. In my normal use Final Cut Pro crashed the most in some cases multiple times in just one hour, for me it was the least stable of the three. Also my Dell XPS 9510 with an NVidia 3050ti runs Davinci Resolve noticeable faster than the Mac Mini M1 and has better render quality at the bitrates I use.
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Videoon 12/5/2021
Forcing Vegas to only use NVidia gpu
When reading reviews about M1 I recall M1 Resolve has a box in the render section that said something like 'Optimize for speed' that would sound like something you would want turn off, but otherwise you should find the resolve help forum. And read about what a buggy mess the last 2 releases of Resolve have been, so could even be a bug I tried unchecking the "Optimize for speed" box then re-rendered. It then actually look longer to render than Resolve on my PC laptop and the quality was still bad. I wonder if I have to install a separate encoder or something like that, no idea.
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Videoon 12/5/2021
Forcing Vegas to only use NVidia gpu
I film adult industry content so definitely not a shareable video, but anyways having said that my Resolve issues are beyond the scope of this forum. I need to find a Resolve forum and ask there because I really can't figure out why the Mac M1 version of the same render, basically a 7 minute 4k h265 file around 600MB looks bad whereas the same one encoded with the same settings on the same app but with NVidia encoder on PC looks really good. I don't know Mac enough to sort this out so I'll look around.
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Videoon 12/4/2021
Forcing Vegas to only use NVidia gpu
Ah that's a shame. I mean truth be told this hasn't been fixed in ages so realistically I think it will remain this way at least until they are forced to port Vegas to an alternate architecture like Arm. I also just did the test with Resolve on my little M1 based Mac Mini, it was quicker than all the others and resultant output file size was around the same but the video quality was substantially worse. No idea what's going on there but I'd have to look into it more. It does make me wonder if all these Youtubers that love to compare render speed between M1 Macs and PC's ever actually look at the final product to see if it's comparable or if they just post numbers.
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Videoon 12/4/2021
Forcing Vegas to only use NVidia gpu
I'm reviving this as I just did some more tests. I ended up keeping Davinci Resolve after all, since it's just a one time fee I figure why not, I can watch them improve it over time. For my tests I use the exact same source and output options in all cases: Source: 4K 100mbps h264 MP4 of 7:37 length from a Sony A7S3 Output: 4k 10000kbps h265 MP4 of 7:37 length, raw file with only one color lut added, nothing more, NVidia encoder in all cases. I did three render comparisons, here's the results. 1) Vegas with Magix Render time was 9:28 Cpu and gpu are bounce all over the place, with cpu bouncing between 5% and 80%, gpu bouncing between 27% and 87%. 2) Vegas with Voukoder Render time was 6:47 Cpu around 82%, gpu around 66% 3) Davinci Resolve Studio 17 Render time was 3:43 Cpu solid at 10%, gpu solid at 100%. I attached task manager pics for each render to show cpu and gpu usage. Clearly Vegas+Magix is software limited, it's use of my hardware is all over the place and extremely inefficient. Vegas+Voukoder is much better, both faster and infinitely more consistent but still software limited. Resolve is clearly hardware limited, it smashes my gpu at 100% the entire time and is far faster than Vegas with either option. I know Vegas's limited use of hardware has been an ongoing thing for many years now but hopefully the devs can improve this in Vegas 20, I'll keep my fingers crossed. I'd love to keep using Vegas as it's still much quicker to edit in Vegas for my needs than Resolve. For the pics below, 1st is Resolve, 2nd is Vegas+Magix, 3rd is Vegas+Voukoder
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Videoon 11/6/2021
Forcing Vegas to only use NVidia gpu
Well I ended up uninstalling Davinci Resolve and asking for a refund, their database requirement and all it's baggage simply isn't workable for my needs. Shame as it seemed like a nice program aside from that, but I still have FCP to check out as well. I posted a more detailed gpu pic below during my HEVC render on Vegas 19 on my laptop. Problem is all the numbers bounce around all over the place so it's a bit deceptive, like cpu is 62% in that screen grab but often it's a fraction of that, it's all over the place. But something is clearly wrong as the machine is mostly underused, there's constant stalls and delays which would explain why it's so slow to render. I know it's been this way for many years but hopefully this is something the Vegas crew could bring up to speed to what the other nle's can do. EDIT: @Howard-Vigorita To your comment about an M1 video board, I think much of the efficiency of their M1 design is because it's all integrated from the ground up and uses a shared memory pool to eliminate many bottlenecks in typical PC design. It's similar to how game consoles are designed and how they can often punch well above their weight in terms of performance.
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Videoon 11/5/2021
Forcing Vegas to only use NVidia gpu
I'm using Vegas 19 with latest patch. Ok I'll check the more detailed gpu metrics in task manager next time I do some tests so we can get more info on what's going on. Yeah the appeal of Vegas is how quick and easy it is to use, I find some things in FCP and Resolve to be infuriating. Like I love how Vegas simply saves all project settings in a single *.veg file that I can put into the folder of a video shoot. Makes it incredibly simple to archive footage, move footage around to other hdd's, copy shoots back to revisit them in the future, etc. With Resolve they have a database, then projects, then events and all this nested stuff that is saved who knows where which makes it really tough for someone like me with 1000+ video shoots to archive stuff off my machine, revisit shoots later, change storage, etc.
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Videoon 11/5/2021
Forcing Vegas to only use NVidia gpu
I wonder if they could ever get Vegas working on Windows arm given how many decades of code is in there and how many legacy x86 software modules it depends on but who knows I guess. I did do two more tests. I bought Davinci Resolve Studio since it works on both PC and Mac and decided to test the same footage on the same Windows Dell XPS 15 laptop that Vegas struggles on. Once again surprise surprise it plays 60fps HEVC 150mbps footage at full frame rate easily (42% gpu) and also scrubs quick and smooth. I took it a step further and decided to compare render times with my typical settings using the same laptop, same render settings and using same NVidia encoder and this one was a shocker. For a 5:24m video with 30fps 4k 100mbps h264 source file these are the render times to 30fps 4k 10mbps HEVC: Vegas Pro: 7:07 Resolve: 2:41 Way more of a difference that I ever would have expected. I took a look at cpu/gpu use while Resolve was rendering and it was 10% cpu and the gpu was pegged at 99%. All this basically proves to me that it's a software issue that Vegas needs to work on, and not an issue with my laptop. I will eventually install Resolve on my little M1 Mac Mini out of curiosity to see how long that one takes to render the same clip.
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Videoon 11/5/2021
Forcing Vegas to only use NVidia gpu
Ended up buying the cheapest M1 based Mac that I could find which was the base model Mac Mini for $650 just to goof around with. I'm not familiar with Final Cut but decided to install the free trial to see how it handles the footage that my laptop struggles with and to my surprise it can handle 10 bit 60fps 150mbps HEVC on the timeline with ease at full frame rate. Even scrubbing was fast and smooth, go figure! I'm not really in the mood to change programs so hopefully Vegas can improve in performance over time.
RealityStudio
Offline, Last login 10/30/2022, Member since 8/27/2016