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Videoon 3/25/2014
Vegas 13 & Intel Haswell Octocore
As I said, it is not the hardware, it is the driver. Your quote, which includes the following "testing OpenCL compute performance" does not contradict that in any way. I have never said that OpenCL performance on Kepler is good, I did in fact say the opposite. HOWEVER. The 6 series are in many cases basically the exact same cards as the Quaddro K series, some places you can even find articles on how to "turn your 6 series card into a Quaddro K card". For that reason one should not use OpenCL on Kepler cards. If you use CUDA on the other hand, the reality is somewhat different. Using CUDA, the 660 and above are as fast as, or faster than the 570 series for rendering and outperform the Quaddro cards. Below you can see benchmarks for Permiere Pro, where rendering gets a speed bost of 10x from a non-GPU situation. In Vegas, using Kepler cards, you get nowhere near ten times increase in performance. You can also check the same site for After Effects performance. AE doesn't get anywhere near the same speed boost, because AE uses OpenCL. In other words, it's not the card nor the architecture, it is nVidia crippling the OpenCL drivers on purpose to make you buy the Quaddro versions. Not using OpenCL will cure that particular issue. So, considering Premiere gets a significant speed boost from cards with the Kepler architecture, and Vegas gets nothing of the kind, the problem lies with... http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/PremiereCS5.htm No GPU - time line render. 110 seconds, mpg-2 render 174 seconds GTX-570 - time line render. 9.4 seconds, mpg-2 render 90 seconds GT-640 - time line render. 10.5 seconds, mpg-2 render 163 seconds GTX-660 - time line render. 9.4 seconds, mpg-2 render 88 seconds GTX-680 - time line render. 9 seconds, mpg-2 render 84 seconds Quadro 2000 - time line render. 11.2 seconds, mpg-2 render 160 seconds Quadro 4000 - time line render. 10. seconds, mpg-2 render 164 seconds
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Videoon 3/24/2014
Vegas 13 & Intel Haswell Octocore
To me, running a 6 series card, I get only a marginal improvement in rendering and timeline preview with Vegas, in Premiere Pro I get a significant speed boost. The issue lies with Sony, not nVidia. Perhaps Vegas uses OpenCL for the 6 series rather than CUDA. OpenCL has abysmal performance on the 6 and 7 series for political reasons. nVidia wants you to use the Workstation cards for this and they ship a decent OpenCL driver for the Quaddro K (as in Kepler) cards. There is (in many cases) no difference between the 600 card and the Quaddro card except the driver. Considering Premiere Pro (but not After Effects mind you, which uses OpenCL) gets a good performance boost on 6 and 7 series cards, SCS should be able to do that too.
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Videoon 3/19/2014
OT: RIP PowerPoint?
This is simple - it is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. Powerpoint is a tool. A hammer can be used to bludgeon someone, so can Powerpoint. It can also be used for its intended purpose though, and it is actually quite good at it.
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Videoon 3/10/2014
Beware XP and Firefox update 27.0.1 and MS .NET
Does anybody actually use Firefox anymore? I thought it was less popular than IE6.
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Videoon 3/8/2014
576 Megapixels / ISO 800 At Night / ISO 1 Daylight
>> I read about some backlash for, the hobbit People hate change. As people get used to 48 they will balk at 24. It is going to change With the current crop of gamers who are used to razor sharp images at high frame rates from their games.
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Videoon 3/5/2014
Simple Question: Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1?
>> My experience has been that way without a GPU for 15 years You are probably right, as a photo/video enthusiast and a geek to boot, I suffer terribly from GAS (Gear Acquisition Syndrome) both in photo and video equipment as well as (probably a lot of unneeded) computer equipment.
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Videoon 3/5/2014
Simple Question: Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1?
>> Which versions of Vegas have made any use of a GPU? OK, makes some sense, we're only on our third year for GPU acceleration in Vegas, but I also watch video on my PC and video playback software has had GPU acceleration for a long time. I can vividly remember when installing a new graphics card in my PC and the CPU load when playing a video went from about 100% down to around 2%, Suddenly I could use my PC also when it was playing video...
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Videoon 3/5/2014
Simple Question: Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1?
>> How did you test the 10-20% speed increase? Our internal benchmarks. I am a software developer and we use various benchmarks to measure the performance of our server software. Also, geekbench reports the same. Here are results of a clean box with Windows 7 and Windows 8, Windows 8 was installed by upgrading Windows 7 (so perhaps not 100% optimal). 8.1 results are not published for this box, but 8.1 seems to have no reduction in performance in our benchmarks. I could, of course, have rigged these tests to prove my point, but then I would have had to have don that a few years ago in anticipation of this discussion. http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/474450 http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/1636586
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Videoon 3/5/2014
Vegas on a MacBook Pro?
Absolutely, the Fermi cards are better at general compute tasks, but the difference between the Kepler and the Fermi cards is not as big as the difference between the Kepler cards and no GPU acceleration. The claim in these fora have generally been that Kepler cards are not designed to do this, and that expecting SCS to support them is futile since there is little gain to be had. That is apparently not true given: http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/PremiereCS5.htm No GPU - time line render. 110 seconds, mpg-2 render 174 seconds GTX-570 - time line render. 9.4 seconds, mpg-2 render 90 seconds GT-640 - time line render. 10.5 seconds, mpg-2 render 163 seconds GTX-660 - time line render. 9.4 seconds, mpg-2 render 88 seconds GTX-680 - time line render. 9 seconds, mpg-2 render 84 seconds Quadro 2000 - time line render. 11.2 seconds, mpg-2 render 160 seconds Quadro 4000 - time line render. 10. seconds, mpg-2 render 164 seconds If I read these tests correctly, I would be better off investing in a GTX-6xxx card than a Quadro card for Premiere (at least CS5). These results would indicate that the claims of vast inferiority of Kepler cards is exaggerated, perhaps the OpenCL implementation (that is the driver) of said cards is not optimized, and they therefore have sub-par OpenCL performance. Given that Premiere Pro CS5 uses CUDA and not OpenCL to render using the GPU, and that the GTX 6xx series share their GPU with the (presumably) much more powerful Quadro Kxxxx cards, the finger currently points directly at the OpenCL implementation for the GTX-6xx series cards, not the cards them selves. It is not only possible, but highly likely, that nVidia limits OpenCL performance on the "gaming" cards to foster sales of their "professional" cards. So, wouldn't the solution for companies like Adobe be to use CUDA instead of OpenCL with nVidia cards? CUDA is clearly not limited by the driver...
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Videoon 3/4/2014
Simple Question: Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1?
>> What i don't have is video cards with an externally accessible general purpose GPU that can be used by software running on the computer For someone who does video editing, that doesn't appear rational to me. Why?
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Videoon 3/4/2014
Simple Question: Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1?
>> Microsoft should examine the Linux model, where the OS and the GUI/shell are separate entities They actually always have been, but you have not been able to turn the GUI off. If you buy the Windows Server version, you can turn off the GUI. Now we just have to wait to see if anyone wants to put that ugly, buggy, crappy monstrosity that is X on Windows Server.
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Videoon 3/4/2014
Simple Question: Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1?
>> that will give you the some performance in Win7 as Win8 and the same "flat" Win2k look Incorrect on every point. The speed increase in Windows 8 is not related to the GUI. Tasks that are not at all related to GUI sees a 10-20% (depending on what they do with memory etc) speed increase. This can not be contributed to GUI simplification. Why buy Win8 - simply because it is a better OS than Win7, and heads and shoulders above WinXP. If you don't like Metro apps, don't use them. Nobody is forcing you to. I can't remember when I last used (or saw) one. I run Win8 as my main OS now, and I never see Metro apps, never see the Start Screen unless I specifically want it for some reason. I thoroughly enjoy not only the improvements in performance, but also stuff improved in Hyper-V, but that might not be relevant for everybody. Win8 is also a bit more stable than Win7, and Win7 makes WinXP feel like a house of cards in a tornado.
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Videoon 3/4/2014
Vegas on a MacBook Pro?
>> The NVidia 7 series gpus are faster at gaming related tasks like triangle >> setup, rops, texture filtering, etc, but those are of no use for compute with >> programs like Vegas Pro, etc This type of info, about both the 600 and 700 series, has been shared on this forum and other places for a while. It's not true. Some of these cards have the same exact GPUs that the Quadro cards have, and those are useful for video editing for sure. Also, Premiere Pro sees a significant speed increase when using the Kepler GPUs. The reality here is that Vegas does not utilize the Kepler GPUs, but that is an SCS problem, not an nVidia Kepler problem.
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Videoon 2/21/2014
Vegas on a MacBook Pro?
fantastic laptop, in my experience, running video editing software on Parallells or VMWare or other virtualization technology simply isn't fun. Speed hit is an issue. I use Bootcamp.
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Videoon 2/21/2014
Simple Question: Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1?
>> has a negative impact on productivity (at least it does on mine). Install Start8 or one of the other alternatives. There is no UI difference between Windows8 in desktop mode and Windows 7, but Win8 is somewhat more performant.
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Videoon 2/21/2014
Simple Question: Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1?
>> If you do switch it off it doesn't load any quicker This is not in accordance with reality.
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Videoon 2/21/2014
Simple Question: Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1?
>> I can find absolutely nothing whatsoever -- nothing -- that I like better >> about Windows 7 compared to XP I have 8G of memory, I have 4G of reasons to prefer Win7/8/8.1 over XP. XP is like DOS. Dead.
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Videoon 2/17/2014
Simple Question: Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1?
>> does that thing cause instability with software programs or >> consume additional resources I do not use classic shell to get my Win8 to look and behave like a desktop Windows should (with a start menu etc) but I use Start8 from Stardock. Start8 does not interfere with other programs and causes no problems, but uses a little bit of resources. 700K to be presise. In other words, no, no resources, not really.
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Videoon 2/17/2014
Simple Question: Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1?
>> you'll spend half your time working around their bloatware Don't know who installed your Win8 with bloatware, but you should not continue to purchase software from them. Windows 8 is leaner, meaner and faster than Windows 7. It requires less RAM, runs multi-threaded apps faster and works identically to Win7 once you install the very lean and non-intrusive Start8. People who claim Win8 is bloated compared to Win7 have never used Win8.
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Videoon 2/17/2014
Simple Question: Windows 7 Pro or Windows 8.1?
>> Win 8.1 is a hog of a resource that requires more power(ram) to run Nonsense. Resource reuqirements for the past few verisions of Windows, that is, all versions after Vista, have gone down version by version. Win 8 requires quite a lot less resources than Windows 7. In Win8 Microsoft has also done some serious optimizations, and you can expect a measurable increase in performance. When I upgraded my quad core box from Win7 to Win8 I got a 10-15% speed increase on multi-threaded apps. First thing I do though is install Start8 on my Win8 machines though. I very rarely see the start screen.
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Videoon 2/16/2014
Long-play commercial downloadable content
0/ No wonder you have problems delivering physical content if you use USPS. National mail services in most countries is terrible. If you mail stuff, use one of the other big international carriers. Very happy with DHL to many places, UPS is great in other regions. UPS uses DHL in other areas. UPS is great in SoCal but rubbish in Brooklyn :-) 1/ I'd do downloadable content, most places in the world now have access to decent speed connections. You're probably going to be fine. The weakest part of the link may be the link to the US, so put your content on Amazon or Azure in a location as close as possible to your potential client. 2/ Consider bittorrent. This may sound weird, but remember, if your .torrent file is not public, nobody can download the content. Charge for the .torrent file and hope people do not share it too much. The advantage of bittorrent is that if the file resides in the building across the street already, it'll be downloaded from there. Also, you won't have to pay for hosting at Amazon or Azure, all your files are only on your PC. You can even monitor who downloads to a degree. Bittorrent has another advantage over other hosting solutions. If your videos get popular, the download speed for the users increases, some times significantly. Bittorrent is the perfect tool for downloading popular video-based content. With Amazon and Azure, if your videos get popular, at best the download speeds stay the same, BUT, with really popular content, the price you pay to Amazon or Microsoft is going to go up. You pay for bandwidth, with torrents, someone else pays for that bandwidth (your user among them). 3/ Quality, don't forget that your customer might view the videos on their PCs (most likely they will). Quality degrades lots faster on a PC display than on a TV for two reasons. The user sits closer to the screen, and the screen is probably high-resolution (minimum HD, but in corporate PCs probably better). 4/ Format is easy. H.264 is universal and can be played by just about anything these days. 5/ Forget about "zipping" the files. Video files do not shrink when being compressed (possibly quite the opposite) since they are already heavily compressed. You can't compress highly compressed content.
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Videoon 2/5/2014
wot : 85 = 3.5 billion
@Old Smoke >> I hope that you can accept the "to bad" when your boss sends you home because he just outsourced editing in India That's life. It isn't going to happen, but if it did, that would be life. I would go and find another job, and there are plenty. There is very little that can actually be outsourced of jobs in the world, so finding new work is going to be fine. If not I'll create my own. >> What good is the new job to the Chinese worker if he dies at the age of 40 That's a straw man and if you'd read the discussion you'd know. Life expectancy is increasing all over the world, particularly in China and India. This is due to that outsourcing, and that is a good thing. An out-of-work person in the US or Europe is going to be able to get by some how. An out-of-work person in India or China may have to sit by while his children dies. To me this is a no-brainer. Outsourcing, and believe me, I work in an outsourcing industry, is generally a good thing. Look at some of the items in my earlier posts. >> get my parts from Asia leaving the local suppliers in the dust Good for you, you're saving lives. Please note that in-sourcing is at least as strong a trend now as outsourcing, in other words, jobs are moving back to the US from low-cost countries. >> we no longer can afford buying products entirely made locally because >> we don't have sufficient buying power Still, even in the US, the number of people involved in industrial production has been increasing lately (apart from the current economic downturn).
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Videoon 2/5/2014
wot : 85 = 3.5 billion
@Old Smoke >> If you go out and print it in China where it is cheaper because >> no one cares what kind of ink is used and where the paper comes from so >> that you can make an extra 2 Dollars, that is where I have an issue with it I am in total disagreement with you. The primary driver for lifting people out of extreme poverty is the fact that he goes out and prints the book in China. Let's say a worker in the US gets $2 for each book printed, the Chinese worker only gets $0.2. So, the guy gets published for $1.80 less in China. The printer in the US may lose his job too. Bad. What else? Well, the Chinese worker gets to feed his family now. Before he had to sell his children to make ends meet. Why should the guy who saves money on printing, but ALSO gets the Chinese worker out of poverty be punished? Remember, this is the main reason poor people in the world are getting less and less poor. For every job moved from the US to a low-cost country you can be sure that many lives are saved or at least significantly improved. That is a Good Thing (TM).
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Videoon 2/5/2014
wot : 85 = 3.5 billion
@Old Smoke >> Nobody is born with "skills" That's absolutely nonsense. Of course people are born with different skills. Certain people are never going to be world champion runners no matter how much they work out. Others are never going to be software developers since they simply are not wired for advanced maths. In the 1970s a lot of psychologists assumed we were born more or less as "clean slates" and that environment was the strongest driver for our development. That has long since been proven utterly wrong. You inherit a significant portion of your "skills", others are of course learned. Latest in genetics has shown that a at least traumatic experience can alter your genetic material in such a way that your offspring inherits the trauma to a degree. I applaud you for your altruistic approach to paying your maid. I would do the same. As for foreign companies in poor countries, they are the primary reason for the economic development in these countries. In 1970 South Korea was poorer than most countries in Sub-Saharan Africa. Not so today. Bangladesh has been seriously poor since it became a country, economic development there is phenomenal at the moment. All of this thanks to "exploitative" western companies.
Terje
Offline, Member since 7/7/2007