resolutions and rendering and such...old hack

FoskeyMedia schrieb am 30.12.2015 um 21:32 Uhr
I know I'm going to get bombed out about this but here goes:
I shooot almost everything in HD, because I want to have it best quality incase it goes online. Sometimes (like the funeral I just did), the final will be a DVD. Inevitably I wind up with a larger file than will fit on DVD. Maybe I should have shot it in SD, but I always wonder if they will wand an HD file down the road. So here's my basic workflow for almost all projects:
1) Shoot in HD
2) Edit
3) Render (for internet) using either Main Concept MPEG-2 Program Stream NTSC Wide Screen or MainConcept HDV 1080-24p
4 Render (for DVD) using DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen Video Stream

This seems to work ok for a shorter format, but when we get into 2 hour projects, it won't fit on DVD. Plus rendering times seem to be really slow (sometimes 18 hours).

Don't call me names..just show me the error of my ways and I'll repent.


Ehemaliger User schrieb am 30.12.2015 um 22:35 Uhr
Two things affect the DVD file size. Length of program and bitrate. If you have to have over two hours, you have to lower the bitrate.
pilsburypie schrieb am 30.12.2015 um 22:41 Uhr
Need someone with better knowledge than me to chime in...... but, you have a few options for your 2 hour production.

1) Reduce bit rate which reduces file size, which reduces quality
2) Keep bit rate and file size and file quality and bang on to 2 DVDs
3) Cut down the length of your production so it fits

Your render templates seem logical for the formats you are producing. I have no idea why it is taking so long. Again I hope someone can help you here. Seems like the computer is struggling with something..... even an old slow machine shouldn't take this long for "just HD"
OldJack schrieb am 30.12.2015 um 22:48 Uhr
Google and download free "Mark's Bitrate Calculator" and calculate the bitrate to use when rendering.
Chienworks schrieb am 30.12.2015 um 23:25 Uhr
Echoing what DonaldT said. File size is determined pretty much solely by length and bitrate.

Super handy and quick calculation is to divide 600 by the length in minutes to get total bitrate. If your video is 120 minutes long then you have to encode with a combined average bitrate of 5mbps or less. You need to subtract the audio size from that figure, so if you use 192Kbps AC3 then you would need to use 4.8~ish Mbps for the video. If you have a substantial amount of menues then this will reduce the available space as well.

It doesn't matter if your source is HD or SD or anything else. It's just the size of the DVD media that limits you.

Now, the DVD file doesn't have to be the only output. Render at 5Mbps for the DVD MPEG2 files, and then render another version to MP4 at much higher bitrate and resolution to use for online.

Personally, i'd look at trying to cut down the length. It's difficult to imagine a funeral being two solid hours of material that must all be retained. It's also unlikely that anyone will want to sit through and watch all of that. Part of your task as an artist may include trimming the video down to eliminate some of the less interesting or empty sections. If you could cut out 24 minutes you'd be able to encode at 6Mbps instead of 4.8 and the quality would be quite substantially better.
wwaag schrieb am 30.12.2015 um 23:46 Uhr
Another option (unless you are already doing it) is to use a dual-layer DVD which holds about 8.5 GB of data.


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musicvid10 schrieb am 31.12.2015 um 00:54 Uhr
Download the VideoHelp bitrate calculator. Requires Java.
John_Cline schrieb am 31.12.2015 um 01:01 Uhr
Since the funeral video likely has relatively low motion, you can easily get away with encoding at a lower bitrate.
john_dennis schrieb am 31.12.2015 um 01:18 Uhr
[Tourist Information]

Does your camera shoot 1920x1080-24p? or 60i?

[/Tourist Information]
FoskeyMedia schrieb am 31.12.2015 um 02:56 Uhr
I can shoot at 24p or 60I
FoskeyMedia schrieb am 31.12.2015 um 03:00 Uhr
I agree with what you're saying, and take it to heart about the editing. I do as much as I can, some people want it all, and when the customer pays....

That being said, I've downloaded teh calculator and it's recommending 4,785 bit rate. Im going to try that and hope the quality wont suffer too much.
FoskeyMedia schrieb am 31.12.2015 um 15:40 Uhr
Not sure what happened...
Was rendering with Vegasaur but it kept crashing/ So I went directly from Vegas and let it stew over night. It now seems stuck at 74% with oo.oo.oo time left after running for 11.26 hours.
rraud schrieb am 01.01.2016 um 17:26 Uhr
'DVD Shrink' is a much faster alternative to re-rendering the entire project in Vegas and quality loss 'seems' about the same.
OTOH, many have found the dual-layer (DVD-9) discs unreliable... the media itself and end-user playback issues. If you do decide to go that route, the Verbatim discs are preferred (least problematic).
FoskeyMedia schrieb am 02.01.2016 um 03:44 Uhr
I have a disc duplicator and I don't think it will do dual layer
FoskeyMedia schrieb am 02.01.2016 um 17:30 Uhr
Quick Update:
I rendered again using the DVD A template and customizing it to a bit-rate of 4,100. That brought it down about a gig. Enough space to squeeze in with no noticeable loss in quality that I can see. Thank you.
Chienworks schrieb am 02.01.2016 um 17:47 Uhr
Good for you! As John pointed out, this material is probably quite low motion so that it lends itself to lower bitrate encoding. You would notice a huge difference if this had been a soccer game or a swim meet.

I've been able to fit over 4 hours on a single DVD when the event was a talking-heads play with almost zero movement. I encoded 2-pass with max 8.5Mbps, average 2.2Mbps, and minimum 1Mbps. The few times that the cast moved around the encoder was able to "borrow" the bits it needed to preserve quality during the action.. Had it been a musical with dancing i probably would have split the same length over 3 discs.
FoskeyMedia schrieb am 02.01.2016 um 17:54 Uhr
THanks for the input. It's very helpful. This happened to be a funeral (so not a lot of motion..tongue in cheek no offense intended). However, many of my shoots are music recitals and dance recitals. The music isn't too bad because there's not a lot of movement (Fingers on a piano or cello mostly...not like I'm taping Mic Jager), The dance of course is a different story and I need to be cognasant of that. I am used to shooting with the thoughts of a digital upload. I'll just have to stay aware of the final putput.