16:9 on consumer camera

diggersf wrote on 2/6/2004, 1:08 PM
I have heard that using electronic widescreen features on cameras makes for bad quality. They mention two different type of electronic widescreen:

1. Stretching the image
and
2. Cutting off a portion of the top and bottom of the video.

Is this true? If so, which type to most cameras use? My camera uses the second method. Will I lose quality even if I don't stretch the video? Thanks for helping.

Comments

farss wrote on 2/6/2004, 1:17 PM
You'll loose quality even if you do strecth the video. Sadly there isn't any camera either consummer or prosummer that shoots native 16:9. The issue is that there's only enough pixels on the CCD for 4:3 to give reasonable resolution. When the camera is switched to 16:9 a band of pixels at the top and bottom are masked off leaving you with a 16:9 area being scanned. You can achieve the same thing in post.
The only exception in the PDX10 from Sony but the CCDs are so small as to introduce another set of problems. The only way at the moment to shoot 16:9 on a budget is with an anamorphic adaptor.
Thing to consider is that even apart from these issues your using the same number of pixels to fill a larger screen so everything has to be that much better to give the same visual quality. Also you cannot expect to use the same shooting techniques in 16:9 as you'd use for 4:3.
vonhosen wrote on 2/6/2004, 1:55 PM
Also have a little read about 16:9 at this site
http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-FAQ-etc.html
Guy Bruner wrote on 2/6/2004, 2:44 PM
You might want to read this. Newer miniDV cams have better 16:9 than the XL1S, GL2 or VX2000 because they extract a full 720x480 frame from the CCD. At the bottom of the link referenced, there is a graphic showing how this is done with a number of different cameras.
diggersf wrote on 2/6/2004, 8:59 PM
thanks for all of this help. I guess I will shoot in 4:3 and then use Vegas' Pan/Crop tool to crop the top and bottom of the video.

I'm having a lot of trouble getting it to work correctly. I started by creating a new project with the "NTSC DV Widescreen (720x480, 29.970 fps)" template and adding some 4:3 clips to my video. I changed the pixel aspect ratio on the clips to "1.2121 (NTSC DV Widescreen)" and then used the "16:9 Widescreen TV aspect ratio" prest in the pan/crop tool. Finnaly, I rendered the video to 16:9 .mpg. There appears to be the blacks bars above and below the video. Is this the right way to do this? Thanks again for your help.
rextilleon wrote on 2/7/2004, 7:18 AM
Nope---I think what you want to do is set your project to standard 720x480, add the black bars on there own track (I think sundance media has a premade one for you) and then just treat the project like a standard 720x480-render that way. When you shoot, you can put some tape on your LCD that mimics 16:9 so that you can frame properly---
diggersf wrote on 2/7/2004, 9:28 AM
I that would work if I was just looking for the 16:9 effect but I want to image to take an entire widescreen tv.
farss wrote on 2/7/2004, 1:37 PM
To do that you need to use track or event pan and crop. That'll compress the image, making it anamorphic. You'll also need to set your preview to match and tunr on"simulated device aspect ratio".Well actually that wont affect what's happening but then you'll be able to see how it'll look on a 16:9 TV or monitor.
FuTz wrote on 2/11/2004, 6:31 AM
diggersf:

Go to this link and you'll find some very nice info about widescreen in general...

http://www.bbctraining.com/onlineCourse.asp?tID=5173&cat=0

...you can also explore the other links on the site... have fun!
SonyEPM wrote on 2/11/2004, 7:14 AM
I use the PDX10 all the time- very nice camera, 16:9 works really well.
prairiedogpics wrote on 2/11/2004, 7:33 AM
The "true" 16:9 shooting option is supposed to be incorporated into one of Sony's new Handicams due out in April - the DCR-HC85 (around $1000).

I was going to save the bucks for the PDX-10, but the DCR-HC85 is cheaper, smaller (the wife can use it..) and has all the manual features I want.

Check it out:

http://www.simplydv.co.uk/newsitems/sony_2004_HC_news.html

Dan
FuTz wrote on 2/11/2004, 8:16 AM

SonyEPM...
PLUS the 1Mpixels pictures... grrr... I just wish I had bought my PD100 a year later ! I'm more hurt by this than having a brand new computer that goes obsolete the day after buying it! :..(