16:9 Video looks squatty on a widescreen TV

craftech wrote on 7/3/2009, 8:42 AM

OK,

So I finally broke down and didn't use my VX2000 (4:3) for a paid gig and used the PMW-EX1 (16:9) instead for a stage lit dance recital.

Major problems producing decent looking SD video with the EX1 by comparison.

Shot in 1080i due to better light sensitivity over 720p.

MXF files on timeline. Tried two different project properties:

1. Nick Hope's template

2. Standard NTSC DV Widescreen for NTSC Vegas template. Pixel aspect is the only thing differemt. The PAR of 1.1852 in Nick's template is different from the 1.2121 of the standard template.

With both, I tried frameserving to Procoder 3 and also tried rendering from Vegas Pro8 timeline with DVDA template and got the same result as follows:

After making a single movie in DVDA Pro 5:

Looks fine on a 4:3 standard CRT TV - black bars top and bottom - people correct shape and size.

On a widescreen TV (42 inch Panasonic plasma I just purchased) there are still black bars top and bottom even when set to "FULL" and the people are squatty looking. They only look right if I set the widescreen television to 4:3.

Anyone know what the problem is?

Also, I think the color fringing problem is just the EX1 having an inability to handle harsh stage lighting compared to the VX2000, but that's another question. Right now I want to know how to correct the aspect problem.

Thanks,

John

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Comments

craftech wrote on 7/3/2009, 7:51 PM

Once you get to a black and white image the problem should go away.
=====================
Yes it did.

John

farss wrote on 7/3/2009, 9:19 PM

John,
can you email a HD frame grab to have a look at. I've got a NTSC capable monitor but I'll have to shift some gear around to get a NTSC capable A/D converter hooked up to it so it might take me a few hours to get a good look at your problem,

Bob.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 7/4/2009, 5:21 AM

Let me try that and let Procoder 3 or Main Concept do the rescaling to SD.

Yes, it makes all the difference in the world.

Export it to a firewire connected CRT monitor and it is clearly visible.

Looks like you and Bob have it pretty well hammered out.

craftech wrote on 7/4/2009, 7:44 AM

Let me try that and let Procoder 3 or Main Concept do the rescaling to SD.

Yes, it makes all the difference in the world.
=================
Jay,

When I looked at the gif of your Project Properties for your EX3 MXF files I noticed that you have the Fiield Order set to None(Progressive). Is that because you shot Progressive? Mine says Upper Field First because I shot 1080/60i.

It also has a box checked that says "Adjust source media to better match project or render settings". Is that new in Vegas 9? I am using Vegas 8.

Also, on your DVDA widescreen render template you are rendering Progressive (Again, I am assuming you shot Progresive).

But you also have YUV , 6 Mbps, Pixel Aspect 1.212

Where are those choices? I don't see them in the DVD Architect Widescreen Video Stream template choices. Also, the last tab on the right of mine says System. Yours says Project.
Or are they new to Vegas 9 and not in Vegas 8?

John

Jay Gladwell wrote on 7/4/2009, 8:37 AM

Mine says Upper Field First because I shot 1080/60i.

Unless, I am mistaken, that is the default. Yes, I shoot in progressive, but I had to reset that to progressive.

It also has a box checked that says "Adjust source media to better match project or render settings". Is that new in Vegas 9? I am using Vegas 8.

To be honest, I'm not certain. That was, if I remember correctly, the default, which seems to make sense. At any rate, I didn't mess with it.

Also, on your DVDA widescreen render template you are rendering Progressive (Again, I am assuming you shot Progresive).

Yes, you are correct.

But you also have YUV , 6 Mbps, Pixel Aspect 1.212... Where are those choices?

I presume that's particular to v.9.

If you have't already, I would strongly encourage you to upgrade to v.9 and use your EX1 more. With the EX cameras and v.9, it's as simple to shoot and edit HD as it was shooting and editing SD.

craftech wrote on 7/4/2009, 11:18 AM

Thanks Jay,

John

farss wrote on 7/4/2009, 2:22 PM

Jay,
I'd suggest you increase your minimum bitrate. We've had players baulk with very low minimum bitrates causing a very rapid change in the bitrate. It's totally content and player dependant so you may never strike the problem...or you might next week.

Bob.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 7/4/2009, 4:27 PM

Bob, thanks for pointing that out! What would you suggest?

rs170a wrote on 7/4/2009, 5:13 PM

Jay, my bitrate method is a CBR of 8,000,000 for anything 70 min. or less.
Anything over that and I use Mark's Bitrate Calculator (Note: link is to a zipped file) to calculate VBR settings.
The only change I've made to the default settings is to bump the safety margin up to 5%.
It has yet to fail me, even for shows of 2 hr. or more :-)
BTW, I make sure my Min never goes below 2,000,000 and my Max never goes over 8,000,000.

Mike

farss wrote on 7/4/2009, 6:41 PM

I'm with Mike on this. However when I've had to push a lot of video onto a single layer DVD I've gone for a lower Min bitrate.
For VBR numbers such as 8,6,2 work quite well however so does say 6,3,1 if I've really got to push it with 2 pass VBR.

Bob.

Jay Gladwell wrote on 7/4/2009, 6:59 PM

Thanks, guys!