24bit record 98se---only 16bit in W2Kpro???

boutros wrote on 6/23/2002, 2:11 AM

I have been unable to record at 24bit running w2kpro and VegasAudio 2g or 2h. I reverted back to 98se and 24 bit record is no problem. In w2kpro i have no problems recording at 16bit. Same problem w/acid 3-wavelab3--cubasevst32/5.1.

As soon as I enable the track to record 24bit i begin to get some sort of EMI or digital funk that grows into a horrible buzz that maxes out the track levels. The audio will actually record at 24bit but is infused with the horrible buzz.

I have checked cables/different drivers/video cards/via drivers/software versions/fans/cases/harddrives/bios flash. Clean installed 2000 3 different times w/various versions of the software and drivers and it made no difference. But as soon as i go back to 98se or Me i have no problems, and can record at 16 and 24 bit. Any ideas? I would truly prefer to use 2000pro but will use 98se to be able to record 24 bit if necessary.

Thanks for your help,

A7v133c w/latest bios
athlon 1600+ ---not oc'ed
seagate barricuda 4-40gig
quantum fireball+ --40gig
liteon 32x burner
full retail---vegas 2h, acid3g, wavelab3.o4, vst32 5.1
matrox g450
yamaha dspf---using lui as frontend
used w2kpro sp2--with newest updates
directx 8.1--and 8.0 at different installs


inspector wrote on 6/24/2002, 2:56 PM
There is a bug in win2000 that prevents recording in 24 bit.
I believe it has to do with Kmixer and is rumored to be fixed
in the next serivce pack for win2000.

boutros wrote on 6/25/2002, 3:02 AM
Thanks so much for the info!

I have been butting my head against the wall for the past 2.5 months w/ this problem. So i reverted back to 98se, which is ok. But i hope the bug is fixed in SP3. Oh and for good measure my Audio drive (barricuda 4 40 gig)decided to crap out today!!! Sometimes i hate computers!!! :) But i love to record music.

God Bless,
zemlin wrote on 6/27/2002, 6:21 PM
It is supposed to be fixed in XP, but I can't get 24 bit with Vegas 2 or 3 under XP.
PipelineAudio wrote on 6/27/2002, 10:13 PM
How are determining if its 24 bits or not?
ramallo wrote on 6/28/2002, 9:34 AM

I can record and play real 24 bits files in Win2K and XP.

edna6284 wrote on 6/28/2002, 10:07 AM
I'm sorry to hear of your problem Boutros. I've stuck with 98SE and I've never had any problems, so aside from being afraid to upgrade I've never had a compelling reason to. I'm sure 98SE doesn't take advantage of my 1.7 CPU like a later OS would, however.

bgc wrote on 6/28/2002, 6:12 PM
Vegas Video 3.0, Win2K, 24-bit OK. Card Deluxe.
zemlin wrote on 7/5/2002, 10:36 AM
I record silence (noise level on my Motu 24i is about -100 db). I zoom WAY down on the WAV file and see if I have data below -90 dB. If I record in W98 (when I can get it to work) I get a waveform below -90. I can also get data down there if I record with CoolEdit Pro. If I record with VEGAS, I get nothing between -90 and null and the next step up is about -84.

I can tell without recording if I arm a track for recording and set the bar graph display for -90 db. I may have to use Cuemix to bump up the gain 6dB. If the bar graph "jumps" in big steps between nothing and -84 or so, I know I'm not getting 24 bit. If it floats smoothly then I know I'm getting hi-res data.
jbrooks wrote on 7/12/2002, 4:17 PM
This has to be a driver issue. I use win2k on severla machines with several different audio cards, and have never had a problem with 24bit recording and playback (and yes, I have verified that it is recording 24bit and not 'fooling' me
fishtank wrote on 7/16/2002, 9:51 AM
I am confused about this issue. It appears that from everything I have read I should not be getting true 24 bit recording with Vegas 2.0h on Win2K Pro SP2 using WDM drivers with the Frontier Dakota\Tango 24. Tests I have done seem to confirm that I am indeed getting 24 bits of *real* resolution using this setup. My old DAW running 98SE (MME I would assume?) with the Frontier ISA Wavecenter shows exactly the same results recording 24 bits with Vegas when I look at the files with SF 6. I recorded with no input and looked at the noise and also a very low level 1Khz sine wave below -96 db.

I was under the impression that the kmixer bug would prevent me from recording true 24 bit using WDM drivers with Win 2K SP2. I am missing something??

ASIO in Vegas would be nice......SF people???
a_v wrote on 7/20/2002, 10:55 PM
i see that this theme was worked in another post recently:


SF, what is going on with all this? I have read and re-read all these messages concerning this issue of WDM vs MME, Windows 2000 and XP and their ability to handle 24bit files properly, and the issue regarding how the Application itself handles audio (recording/playing)

What is the conclusion? Are we getting 24bit when we record with Vegas or not? Why are some people claiming they can and others cant?

i cant believe what im hearing with all this. Ive been a user of NT and 2000 for years using Lynx sound cards. If this is a OS level problem then i suppose this is my cue to switch platforms, cause this is a hard to pill to swallow.

billybk wrote on 7/22/2002, 8:49 AM
This issue has been covered many times before. Check the archives for the SF response to this. But, the short answer is, it is a W2K OS problem. When audio drivers try to use the W2K kmixer(whether it is MME or WDM drivers) there is a 16bit limitation. The next W2K SP3 update is supposed to correct this. When that will be is anybody's guess. XP does not have this problem, only W2K. Even though your app may say you are recording @ 24bit in W2K, if your audio drivers are using the kmixer, there is just 8 bits of empty data added to simulate 24bit. This is just another reason why XP is the superior multi-media Windows OS. It works great with audio right of the box, no need for any service packs or any MIDI and audio device limitations that affect W2K. I always tell people that W2k was the beta for XP. With XP, MS finally got it right.

Billy Buck
wcoxe1 wrote on 7/22/2002, 10:07 AM
The only problem with that is that, around here, no one can get XP to run right, either. So, when will that get XP right?
zemlin wrote on 7/22/2002, 7:15 PM
I can't get 24 bits in Vegas under XP, but Cool Edit and Cool Edit Pro work fine under XP.

I just built a new all-intel machine running 98se and vegas doesn't work worth a sh*t on that either - keeps getting blue screens when I arm for recording.

I bought vegas based on great reports of reliability - so far I ain't impressed.

Off I go - hunting for tips on the blue screen problems.
billybk wrote on 7/23/2002, 8:56 AM
"The only problem with that is that, around here, no one can get XP to run right, either. So, when will that get XP right?"

I guess you need to find somebody that knows what they are doing and can fine tune desktop PC's for DAW work. I have been successfully using XP on my home built PIII 1Ghz/512MB/Delta 66(WDM) DAW for over a year now, starting with the XP RC1 Beta. In January, after my 6 month beta period ran out, I installed XP Pro. Been using it nearly every day for audio and video work. I just recently completed a 10 minute corporate DV(720x480) video for a client on my PC using Vegas Video 3.0a and Sound Forge 5.0f. I took about an hours worth of raw DV video(shot over two days)along with numerous CD tracks as music beds, captured and edited it down to the 10 minute finalized version from about 6pm to 3:30 in morning. I then rendered it back to tape(Sony TRV103), which took about another 90 minutes. I then had to show the final video on a LCD projector on an 8' foot screen in front of 60 people in a hotel ballroom at 11:30AM that same morning. XP, once again came through with flying colors. During the whole video and audio capturing process, 9.5 hours of continous capturing and editng and the final 90 minute rendering to tape, my XP DAW performed flawlessly. With the time contraints I had, I could not afford any computer/OS related problems if I was to concentrate on the task at hand and finish the project in time. If you have correctly installed XP for desktop digital audio/video demands(like installing in "Standard PC" instead of the default "ACPI"), correctly configured and fine tuned your computer system with high performance, compatible and compliant XP hardware, then you should not be having any problems.
For me, XP is ready for primetime and I have satisfied clients to prove it.

Billy Buck

jbrooks wrote on 7/24/2002, 8:14 PM
not necessarily an os problem , but a driver problem, as I have said. Thats why people with certain soundcards have problems, and others dont.

typically, better soundcard companies, like digigram ,and RME, write their own drivers, and I can prove it to you that these work in 24bit with win 2k out of the box
wcoxe1 wrote on 7/25/2002, 10:39 AM
The only problem with all that is we have 3 professional MS trained OS techs, alone, in this computer school lab, not to mention other techs (9). We still have problems, all over campus.
a_v wrote on 7/26/2002, 2:53 AM
i recieved a nice short email from Lynx today about this subject and Jbrooks who posted before me is right. Here is the email i received:

Are drivers do not utilize the Kmixer. 24-bits of real data are used.

So, it is a driver issue... If youre driver utilizes the kmixer in windows, youre getting 16 bit, if not, then it appears all is well. Perhaps this SP3 fix that people are mentioning in regards to W2K is for people whose soundcards utilize the Kmixer.
fishtank wrote on 8/1/2002, 10:07 AM
Check out this link: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q308883

It describes the problem and also states that certain hardware may not experience the truncation. My Frontier Design Dakota does seems to work properly recording 24 bit audio without the fix. Also, they talk about samples getting out of order in some circumstances which could explain the behavior some have seen.

Note that this fix is supposed to be included in Win2K SP3 which is due out today. You could apply the pre-SP3 fix listed on the support web page though you must contact Microsoft to obtain the fix if you want it without installing SP3. They did not provide a way to download it directly.

I am interested in peoples experiences with Win2k SP3 for these issues. I still have a problem where Win2K does not show the 16 additional optical I\O ports on my Montana card. Frontier tells me this is a Windows bug but I have no idea if SP3 will fix it.