24P And Slow Motion

MUTTLEY wrote on 9/28/2004, 9:54 AM
I have yet to experiment but this has been something I've wondered for awhile and more so since getting a camera capable of 24p.

Seems to me if you wanted to slow motion some of your footage that was shot in 24p you would get quite the stagger as there are less frames in the mix. As I understand it in film when planning on doing slow motion they speed up the camera so they have more frames. With this in mind, if you were planning on doing some slow motion would you be better to shoot that in 60p ? In theory this seems to make sense but from what I've seen on television shows that use home movie type footage, when slowed down it still looks like a slowed down camcorder. We know that 60p innately has more of a " camcorder " look than 30 or 24p, but shouldn't it be a close match when slowed or stretched ?

Would love to hear what some of you might know about this.

- Ray

www.undergroundplanet.com

Comments

winrockpost wrote on 9/28/2004, 1:50 PM
I would agree, frankly I have yet to see 24p (panasonic)video that didn't look a bit choppy at regular speed unless it was a shot with no movement.I too would be worried about slomo
I have no answer for you but I'm sure with a little experimenting (playing) you will figure it out.

Good luck
apit34356 wrote on 9/28/2004, 2:03 PM
24p film slow mo is always shotted at higer frame rate, rates can variable, usually 2x+, explosions are shot up to 1k rate. There are many documents available about this, but comes down to about the available light, expected rate of moment in scene, camera specs and number of camera angles. Usually 60p for people moment will work for most video layouts, unless it a fight scene with swords or real like combat action.
Spot|DSE wrote on 9/28/2004, 2:27 PM
Just as an aside, the new Artbeats HD stuff is all shot at 2K frames if it's high motion. Camera is pretty rare, made by NEC.
vitalforces wrote on 9/28/2004, 2:29 PM
I've rendered a number of slow-mo shots from a Panny DVX100 at 24p and they look smooth down to a certain rate, due I assume to Vegas' supersampling feature.
farss wrote on 9/28/2004, 3:12 PM
Supersampling will not help, period! It ONLY is of any use with generated media. With that Vegas is able to generate interframes for MB to use giving the effect of slow shuuter speeds. An excellent feature for sure.
It's not just the fps that the original footage was shot at but shutter speeds. I suspect that's where film cameras have a big advantage. As you ramp the fps the effective shutter speed tracks the fps as they're mechanicaly linked. Actually thinking about that I'm wondering how they control exposure, the only other thing that could change is apertue to compensate which means DOF would change.

Bob.
apit34356 wrote on 9/28/2004, 3:30 PM
"As you ramp the fps the effective shutter speed tracks the fps as they're mechanicaly linked. Actually thinking about that I'm wondering how they control exposure, the only other thing that could change is apertue to compensate which means DOF would change." This is why lighting is so criticial, with film you can up the ASA grade, usually its both light and ASA. AlSo critical is the angle of moment compared to the camera and lighting source. Plus the amount of moment between frames.
johnmeyer wrote on 9/28/2004, 3:34 PM
You could try Dynapel's Motionperfect. It actually generates new intermediate frames using motion estimation (similar to what is used for predictive coding in MPEG-2. It works much better on progressive footage than on interlaced footage, in my experience. The only downside is that you have to view each scene and see if you like the results, because the motion estimation can be badly fooled occassionally. I tried it on a pan which included a picket fence, Ouch! It looked really bad. The next scene was a similar pan (this source was 18 fps Super8 film that had been transferred, frame-by-frame with a workprinter) and it looked spectacular.
farss wrote on 9/28/2004, 3:45 PM
John,
that's a very interesting result. One thing that can throw motion estimation off is noise / grain, even S8 could cause it a bit of grief I'd imagine.
Bob.