25p to 24p from HDV source

dannyoneill wrote on 5/18/2008, 4:03 AM

Hi, Im hoping somone has gone through this and can help.

I shoot in HDV 1080i as it gives me more flexibility than shooting in DV. Im in the UK so its all 25p PAL.

I want to take this footage and output it to DVD at 24p to reduce that video camera look. Ive seen all sorts talking about the project and DVD Architect settings to use but there all relating to NTSC.

Has anyone got any tips for going from 25p to 24p and DVD? Should I work using a HD timeline (1440x1080) or have an SD timeline? Does it matter what my timeline is in and the render takes care of the rest?

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Comments

megabit wrote on 5/18/2008, 5:08 AM

First of all, since you say you're shooting 1080i in 25p, I assume you're talking 25PsF?

But never mind - the answer to your question is: forget it! There is visually no difference between 25p and 24p from the motion perceiving viewpoint.

The only reason I can think of for trans-coding from 25 to 24p would be conforming to the BD standards, but since you're talking DVD, there is no such need.

As to the resolution: you have two choices - either downconvert at capture (in which case you project settings would of course be SD), or capture HD, set your project and edit HD (you never know when you will need it for BD delivery), and only do the final render using PAL widescreen template for DVDA.

farss wrote on 5/18/2008, 5:12 AM

Changing from 25p to 24p isn't going to make the slightest difference to the "video loop"! That's a 4% difference in the frames per second! After all movies in PAL countries get played at 25fps for broadcast, do they magically stop looking like film and start looking like video?

Apart from that though if you've shot 25p there are other good reasons to convert to 24p. That's the best was to deliver your content for NTSC playback. To do this download and read the following:

http://sony-937.vo.llnwd.net/dspcdn/whitepapers/24p.pdf

That covers converting from 24p to 25p. Simply reverse the procedure to go the other way.

Bob.

dannyoneill wrote on 5/18/2008, 6:32 AM

thanks megabit, ive always wondered about the project. Didnt know if its best to have the project set to the format of the output or edit in HD and just render in SD.

I think ill stay at 25fps then. Is there anything else I can do to easily get that movie look. Im using magic bullets for my colour but wondered if its possible to get the motion blur. Depth of field will be the biggie but until I can afford a Letus ill stick with my ND and iris controls.

farss wrote on 5/18/2008, 6:56 AM

If you're shooting 25p then the motion blur will be the same if you keep your shutter speed at 1/50.
One of the largest factors that gives movies that look is lighting.
If you want an excellent resource on how to get the movie look I'd highly recommend the DV Rebels Guide, written by someone whose made quite a few movies with a wide range of budgets. Strangely enough very little of the book mentions things like DOF or frames per second and as it says you could take any video camera along to a movie set and shoot some footage and it'd look a million bucks.

Bob.

Serena wrote on 5/18/2008, 8:04 PM

>>>24p to reduce that video camera look<<<

Ah, the old "film look" trick. This is one of the philosophical questions endlessly debated, without conclusion.
Coming from a film background I think I can pose the matter in a different form: what is lacking in material shot on video? What is it that you don't like?

There are attributes that are typical of lower end video shot material: burnt-out highlights (e.g.clouds), garish colours, excessive edge-sharpening, low resolution, coarse colour gradients (e.g banding), interlace artifacts, jerky camera, bad lighting, poor audio. None of those are good and generally are not characteristics associated with the movie magic seen in cinemas.

So what are the important features of movie magic? 24 fps? Restricted depth of field? Many people believe those are indeed the crucial ingredients. If one wants to trick people into assuming material was shot on film, then adding scratches, grain, and motion stutter will do it.

The technical look of film is associated with smoothly graduated highlight and shadow contrast, smoothly graduated tones with good resolution and no edge ringing. All within reach of current video technology. It's the quality of what you shoot, rather than 24P, that gives it that "film look".

But there are other opinions.