You can easily change the flag to progressive by RClicking the media. If you have a lot of clips that could be a PIA.

I think different from the A1, which actually records progressive frames, the HV20 records segmented frames which are field based - technically spoken.

So if Vegas handles the HV20 segmented frames as interlaced - Vegas does it right. It's two fields with no temporal differences which will look like a progressive frame in playback.

Marco

Marco,

Aha - this might be the reason - having the HV20 doing some "fake" progressive.

Will this "misunderstaning" between HV20 and Vegas (and XH A1) cause any problem in Vegas, with regards when mixing clips from HV20 and A1 and when rendering etc.?

I'm rendering out to DVDA, MPG2 only - not to film.

If I right-click the clip in the time line, it has "Field order: upper field first" - should I keep this or set it to "NONE (progressive scan)" even though it might not be true Progressive?

deusx & farss

I'm a bit lost here - do I need to make special arrangments when working with progressive clips in Vegas? My end-media is DVDA MPG2 only, not film.

I don't know about 25p, but I know with 24p and the Canon HV20, Vegas isn't able to identify that it's in 24p, as the HV20 doesn't have "flags" to point this out (don't ask me what that means, I just know that Vegas can't pick up the 24p with the HV20. I ended up having to purchase the Cineform Neo software that will capture the HV20 24p correctly and then import it into Vegas.

I set it to progressive and just work with it, but if you have cineform you can capture with that and remove pulldown to get better "real" progressive footage. There is also a more complicated but free way ( should be easy to find via google ) to achieve the same.

I usually don't bother if the footage is shot properly, looks fine, and I'm not using it to shoot anything that really matters these days.

CClub

>I don't know about 25p, but I know with 24p and the Canon HV20, Vegas isn't able to identify that it's in 24p, as the HV20 doesn't have "flags" to point this out (don't ask me what that means, I just know that Vegas can't pick up the 24p with the HV20. I ended up having to purchase the Cineform Neo software that will capture the HV20 24p correctly and then import it into Vegas.

Do you mean that Vegas cannot capture HV20/25PF correctly. I used the inbuilt capture program (Vegas 7) and got a clip that 'looks' like progressive (although it might be some fake progressive generated by HV20).


deusx,

>I usually don't bother if the footage is shot properly, looks fine, and I'm not using it to shoot anything that really matters these days.

Do you mean that the HV20/25PF is inferior?

I played the clips back on 42" plasma from the HV20 and it is perfect but when I'm doing a DVD the image is much inferior. Is this due to the SD DVD or have I missed some settings in Vegas when generating the MPEG. I used the "PAL ... for DVDA" setting thinking that all settings would be optimal set. Do I need more tuning? Can one come closer to the tape-playback quality when using DVDs?

If you go to www.dvinfo.net, there is a forum called "Cineform Software Showcase." Once there, under search this forum, type keywords "hv20, 24p," and perhaps add "Vegas." It seems that Vegas isn't able to do the pulldown removal from the HV20 to get the true 24p that you're looking for. I certainly didn't want to purchase the $250 Neo software, but -- at least at that time -- that was the only way it could be done without going through mass amounts of steps using VDub or something. You can also go to hv20.com and there is a lot of help in that forum for this issue also.

Edit: Here's another link: http://www.cineform.com/products/TechNotes/InverseTelecine.htmCineform[/link].

Regarding whether the HV20 24p/25p is fake: there was a great article that David Newman from Cineform had written regarding this; I can't find the link, but basically, he said that despite reports to the contrary from the "purists," the final 24p footage once the pulldown is removed is very much "true 24p" footage.

""Field order: upper field first" - should I keep this or set it to "NONE (progressive scan)" even though it might not be true Progressive? "

There's no such thing as "fake" progressive.
It sounds like in the case of the HV20 it's recorded as 25PsF and there's nothing "fake" about it. All that happens is the frame is split into fields into a 50i sequence. In terms of what's recorded that's no different to recording it as frames except many systems don't know how to handle 25p and no HDV VCR will play it.

You can change the media to Progressive in Vegas and nothing will go wrong. You can ignore it and edit on a progressive timeline in Vegas with de-interlace set to Merge and all will work correctly, I think. For safety unless you test this I'd change the flag in the media to P. Only reason I'm not 100% certain is I've only used 25PsF from the V1P which is recorded exactly the same way as the Canon except the P flag is there.

Where you can get an issue is editing 25PsF on an interlaced timeline. When you do that temporal FXs get rendered as interlaced. Say you do a dissolve. Then Vegas dissolves field A from source 1 with field A from Source 2 etc. On a progressive display you will see interlace artifacts during the dissolve.

Bob.

>>Do you mean that the HV20/25PF is inferior?<<

It's not, but it has pulldown, so you would have to remove it to get true 24 progressive frames ( or 25 in your case ).

It looks fine, just capturing and editing, if your hands are steady, but if I were using HV20 ( for example ) for green screen purposes, especially with moving subjectst then I'm pretty sure Cineform would be a necessity.