A slghtly better way and to get the right answer - ask the question this way - can the support of 5.1 track creation in VegasPro be routed to a 7.1 system with good results? Then the sound techs here will reply definitively!
Doubt it. DOLBY 7.1 is more of a pro end Blu Ray thing and although there are some under the table methods of encoding 7.1, from a legal standpoint there are very few encoders and they're pretty expensive. IIRC the dts hd master audio suite lists for something like $1500 and even if you could (legally) encode to 7.1, there are only a small handful of author systems which would enable you to actually author to blu ray and they start at something like $8000
Now I do believe Pro Tools has added a 7.1 panner, and there is really nothing stopping you from producing a 7.1 channel mix in Vegas itself (albeit it a tad harder without the panner), but again the mixes are useless without the encoder and the (legal) means to get it onto a disc.
You sort of get the feeling this is not really something Blu Ray (Sony) wants the average consumer to be a part of.
<Feel free to ask for it and maybe it will show up some day.
I will try rewording my question as suggested to something like:
<can the support of 5.1 track creation in VegasPro be routed to a 7.1 system with good results?>
I tried yesterday playing one of my Vegas encoded 5.1 recordings on my 7.1 setup and (as one might expect) got nothing out of the 2 rear speakers.
Oh well, if it was easy everyone would be doing it...
There is definitely something to be said about having front/back speakers as well as left/right. It does add appreciable ambiance to the mix.
I still haven't noticed any difference in having a center dialog channel over having the same material panned center between front left/right speakers. Either way it still comes from the front center. I suspect 7.1 wouldn't be noticeably different from 5.1 for the same reason.
Since my living room 5.1 system is 6 three-way with 15" woofers, i really don't notice much difference with the subwoofer on or off as the other 5 speakers all easily handle high levels down to 35Hz anyway. Subwoofers really only help when all you've got are the tiny little itsy speakers for the other channels, and who wants those anyway?
6x15" speakers, way to go!
I just got a 15* subwoofer (-3db claimed at 18c/s)and it's revitalized my dvd/bd collection. Fair rattles the whole living room and litterally shakes my comfy chair. There is low freq content on these disks I had no idea existed. I'm going to have to stop using an automatic 40c/s low cut on my recordings.
But you may misunderstand me, when I say hole in the middle, I mean at the back between the two rear speakers of a 5.1 setup.
I never could get a "walk round" of my mic that gave anything close to acceptable results at the rear.
Between these two is where the extra two speakers of a 7.1 setup live.
That's where I have the hole in 5.1
To my ears the same small group almost sound better when encoded using pcm in stereo rather than dolby in 5.1 but I think that's partially dolby's fault. The pcm sounds brighter and the spatial localization is better. Unfortunately in 5.1 the low rumble of a bus coming by from the rear is spoiled by the subwoofer being at the front. You can't win can you!
Ahhhhh, well, two differences here. I don't really turn around to see what the imaging is like behind me. The rear speakers are, well, rear. I remain pretty much consistently facing forward so i've never noticed a hole behind me.
Also, my subwoofer is in the rear. Supposedly it doesn't make much difference where you put it since low frequencies aren't as directional, but that's where the open spot in the room was so it ended up there. That may help fill in the hole too.
I know what you mean about the revitalization though. There's a song that a lot of folks in my church like a lot, Rich Mullin's "Calling Out Your Name". I've seen it performed live back when he was still alive, and the percussionist used an enormous 4 foot Bodhran that probably has a resonant frequency below 40Hz. Of course, most everyone i know has only ever listened to the recording on little computer speakers, laptop speakers, or earbud headphones, and the drum beats sound like a little 'clink'. When you listen to it on my living room system the drum beats almost cave in your chest; if feels like the beater is hitting you instead of the drum head. It really changes the character of the experience.
"I tried yesterday playing one of my Vegas encoded 5.1 recordings on my 7.1 setup and (as one might expect) got nothing out of the 2 rear speakers.
Yes, but not through Dolby Digital because there is no such thing as 7.1 in DD.
Just as stereo has a maximum of 2 channels, DD has a maximum of 6
DTS HD supports 7.1 but as I stated before you can not produce this (legally) at a consumer level.
You CAN create a 7.1 channel mix in Vegas and export as multi channel wav (provided your playback device supports it), or you can export it as 8 separate wav files then import that to a DTS HD encoder.... or you can simulate it (most 7.1 receivers can mimic 7.1 from a 5.1 track by simply copying 2 tracks)... but the only way to involve Dolby and 7.1 is to encode as DTS HD... and you need the encoder for that.
You can also (with the right audio card) playback 7.1 channels directly from Vegas. You need to have a card with at least 8 discrete and assignable channels. Do not use the 5.1 surround template. Use stereo and and set your number of stereo buses to 4. Import your 8 tracks and manually assign them to your channels.
Thanks for that info.
My sound card only goes up to 5.1 so that's no good.
$1500 for an encoder is not an option.
I've not seen anything on my Marantz receiver that lets me "mix up" from 5.1 to 7.1.
Looks like I'll have to sit this one out until something turns up for free.
Just seen your screen capture, you must have been putting that up while I was typing :-)
That's something neat, but unfortuately my soundcard will not do it. Cheers.
"My stereo speakers are pretty much flat down to 20Hz, and have 12" woofers, though in a specific configuration. "
Hoo hum....Very boring and 2 dimensional.
A properly balanced, high quality surround system with a good surround track is nothing short of amazing. Even more so at home than in the theaters because you have total control and can tune it for the exact seating position of your choice. And with 4 woofers (two 15 inch subs and two 12's in the front speakers) when a bomb blast goes off you can feel it just as much as see it.
Of course you're free to stick with your flat stereo speakers but me.... I decided to move up and on YEARS ago ;)
So if movies aren't your thing and your happy with your flat stereo speakers, why are you trolling in this thread desperately seeking attention? ALL of your posts in this thread thus far have not in any way lent assistance to the op and seem to be primarily aimed at disrupting things.
Well I created a set of full 7.1 surround sound files yesterday of a small instrumental/vocal group busking downtown. Once I had created the software template (~10minutes) the generation of the files took about 10 seconds. Now I could bang out further 7.1 sets of other songs in less than a minute or so.
Then I re-enabled the 7.1 sound on my motherboard and installed the drivers for it.
And finally wired the 7.1 outputs of my motherboard to my receiver.
Unfortunately that-all was the easy part.
Now I'm in a hopefully temporary holding pattern while I figure out:
1) How to get buses to work in Vegas. I am going to have to spend some time drawing diagrams of what is going on before I can understand it.*
2) Figuring out how to get Vegas to recognise the 7.1 as opposed to the add-on 5.1 sound card I have. I may have to uninstal the 5.1 card in order to get the 7.1 working - which would be annoying because the 5.1 card gives lovely sound quality.
3) Try and get rid of the 60c/s hum that connecting my pc up to my receiver causes. (probably not gonna happen as I suspect it's not an earth-loop or grounding issue but comes from the motherboard itself)
*when I worked as a pro everything was mono. (1 bus) So I find multiple busses easy as a concept but very difficult to figure out in practice. And as always, the help files are frustratingly difficult to use. (No one ever writes the answer to the question I am asking). Sigh.
Me angry, and trolling ?!!! Sorry if I touched a nerve.
In response to other posts on a tangent of the thread I simply stated that my stereo speakers have bass extension to around 20 Hz without a sub, and 5.1 doesn't really excite me. And a slightly amusing annecote regarding spilt coffee.
Clearly it does for many other people, and I wish you, all of them, and everybody else, Season's Greetings !
To give 3 dimensions you need a vertical component, possibly 8 (or 8.1). FLB, FLT, FRB, FRT (where 'B' is for bottom and "t" is for Top), the same vertical arrangement on rear, a sub if you need, and a Centre if the imaging is too challenged to localise screen dialogue.
"8" is achievable with common 8-output converters. As is the 7.1 for the OP. But the panning .....
"Then I re-enabled the 7.1 sound on my motherboard and installed the drivers for it.
I don't think the 7.1 sound on your mobo will not work because the channels are not assignable. You need a sound card with at least 8 assignable channels. This means the channels are discrete and front speakers (just for example) can be assigned to rear tracks and so on. Your audio device type in preferences should show up something like this:
Hoo boy! First: Thankyou all very much for all the input.
1) Yes well when I look at my creative ASIO I get exactly as shown in your screen grab. Oh wait, you do have more channels availablethan me. Perhaps it is something to do with the drivers for my 7.1 not having an ASIO option?
2) The 7.1 on my motherboard obviously has 8 channels but you know they are "not assignable"?
How do you know this?
3) Another question: There is only 5.1 available to "assign" in the Vegas preferences Audio Device tab. So it wouldn't matter if I had an 8 channel device according to this setting - or is this a case of a software engineer only making availabe what his software thinks is physically is available? (I dislike that big brother approach)
4) But wait you said to use stereo and assign multiple busses. Mmm, my head is spinning, time to quit for the night.
"4) But wait you said to use stereo and assign multiple busses"
Now you're getting it. If you do indeed have assignable channels then you simply need to assign the tracks to the channels you want. The STEREO selection allows us to add busses (unlike the surround sound slection). Do not try and assign tracks through preferences. It simply sets a default value, and as you have noticed the "default" does not include 7.1. Instead assign the track to busses through the mixing console (first screen grab above). Then on the actual time line you will need to assign the track to the appropriate bus.
"2) The 7.1 on my motherboard obviously has 8 channels but you know they are "not assignable"?"
Your FRONT, REAR, SIDE, etc will either show up as viable choices.... or they won't. If they don't then there is a communication problem between Vegas and your audio card, or your audio card simply does not have the flexibility.