The easiest way is to get yourself one of these, for best results capture with a 3CCD camera, but a standard one will work as well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2989839816&category=15257

Cervama,

Great question. I too am interested in doing the same thing. If you end up pricing out what it would cost to have a post house do it for you (ie scan every frame), please post how much it cost you.

Thanks,

Matt

Have you used one of these transfer kits yourself? If so, how was the quality as opposed to projecting 8mm film on to a screen and recording it with a videocamera?

Chris

Here are some links for more information on this subject:

Telecine

Workprinter Workflow

My Original Workprinter Posts

Thanks, I'll be trying that

I do a lot of 8mm transfers using the Elmo telecines. Results are quite good, depends very much though on the state of the film.

One of the big problems is the difference if frame rate of course, there's no 100% accurate way to convert 16 2/3 fps to 25 or 30 fps.

Giving the film a good clean can make quite a diffference too, we use either propanol or 90% ethanol 10% water. Watch out for torn spocket holes, really nasty when the cleaning cloth gets caught on them!

I had about 2500 ft of 8mm and super8 film transferred to DV about 6 months ago. I took a small test reel to two different local transfer houses to compare quality. Both used Elmo systems.

One service was cheaper but the other used a better 3CCD camera, had quicker service and cleaned the film in the process (a practice that is somewhat controversial). The output quality was marginally better, but still noticeable when viewed on a NTSC monitor, so I went with the more expensive service. The price including high quality DV master tapes and tax came out to about $ .17 per ft vs. $ .12 per ft with the cheaper service. HTH

JL

I'd be happy to price a transfer for you email rmorris21942@yahoo.com

I clean and lubricate every bit of film that I transfer with a solution made for that purpose. Old film dries out which can cause scratching and projector belt slippage.

The cheap transfer boxes usually result in hot spots since they are made to use with the projector's original high wattage bulb. To avoid flicker, you have to use a projector running at either 15 or 20 fps such as in the Cinemates or Elmos, or use a Workprinter such as mentioned above. The Workprinters use a frame accurate system 1:1 film to video frame capture which then requires a 3:2 pulldown to get to 30 FPS for video. You can also do a reasonable job of removing flicker with software.

Using a camcorder with manual control is very advantageous. Best general results are by locking the shutter speed at 1/60. Manual control then lets you adjust WB, aperature, color saturation, etc during capture, which can save many hours of processing time in an NLE

I recently used Ralph's service to transfer some Super8 film from the late 1960's and early 1970's to miniDV tape. Ralph did an excellent job providing both a great final product and customer service. He certainly knows what he's doing and has the right equipment to do a professional job. I've already recommended his service to a couple of friends who also have film that they'd like to capture.

Thanks Ralph!

Thanks for the kind words Larry. Your films were in excellent condition and I enjoyed doing the work.

One of the intriquing aspects of transferring old family films is seeing the "stars" of the films age in a very compressed time frame. The toddler on the films is often now the adult bringing the films for transfer.

My sense of humor sometimes gets me in a little trouble, such as when I told my wife to tell one of her co-workers that she was really cute naked. (I had been transferring her parents' films and the the co-worker was getting a bath at about two months of age). Fortunately she did get a good laugh but only after exhibiting a rather startled expression, according to my wife.

If you don't have a lot of transfers involved, you can achieve great results with a Revere projector from the mid 50ies. 60 era. This projector has a tape transport system that is excellent with aging film and definitely easy to work with. Don't spend money on transfer boxes - just too difficult to work with. Put your projector within approximately 2 to 4 feet of a screen and place your corder off to one side or over the projector and shoot. Prior to this just set up as above and start the projector and camcorder and adjust the playback speed - watch your external monitor - you can eliminate all of the flicker - load your footage and go. Works great.

Jerry Bryant
Video Productions

Just keep in mind that the foregoing [home transfer] techniques, while fine for silent film, are not usable with sound footage, which usually runs at either 18fps or 24fps.

The variable speed projectors can work very well. Instead of projecting onto a screen, which adds it's own surface irregularities, try finding an 8X10 inch photo gray piece of hardboard, often available at art supply stores. I't will be smoother than a screen and will knock down some of the brightness and contrast of the projected image. (Film has about twice the contrast range of video)

Before I got into business, I used this technique and it can work very well, but it's hard to ride the speed control while simultaneously making in camera adjustments for image variation in the films. Also, be sure to clean and lubricate the film to avoid scratching and breakage.

I still keep the old Revere - it's like a piece of art deco design, I think there's only one plastic knob on the whole unit.

If you do have any odl 8mm film or know anyone that does, PLEASE look into how it's stored. The way some of the stock was processed there's not much you can do to stop it fading fast if it hasn't already but the rest of it should last a lot longer IF it's stored properly.
Whoever at Kodak decided cardboard should be near film should have been given a serious flogging.
As for lubricating it, that's fine EXCEPT you need to redo the process regularly. Most of the damage I've seen done to film is because of the lubricants, they were organic and the mold just loves growing on it.
Kodak only did this for a few years, all the footage from that era seems to have suffered as a result. I'm told by the old hands you were meant to clean and relubricate every five years, yeah right!

Ralph,

I have a 40's Revere projector sitting here in my office.. such a beautiful piece of machinery.

I've done my own transfers many times, but ended up with a huge amount of family footage I'm looking at transfering.. could you send me your rates offline?

chenopup@covad.net

thanks,

Mike

The Workprinter method of putting the image through a condenser lens to the camera is a very good way to get a clear image.
I am building a special projector which uses a stepper motor synchronised to the analogue output of the camera. The film goes through at 12.5 fps (pal here). This gives me a video clip which has every second frame blurred with pulldown but the others rock steady. In Vegas I can accurately trim to half length and eliminate the bad frames. This is double speed but then I stretch to give correct (or slower to make it last) speed. Posted about this ages ago but am still testing rather than actually building the finished unit.
I am going to light with a high intensity LED and transport the film UP and REVERSED through the gate. mount the camera upside down and project to the condenser lens without needing the mirror. Probably could do all this reversing in Vegas though???

Interesting project bw. Are you starting with an old projector as the basis for this or are you building completely new?

I'm assuming you have some way to evenly diffuse the LED since it is a rather small point source of light. There are some advantages in using a low wattage incandescent bulb such as the large light emitting area. If 50 Hz flicker is an issue, a DC power supply could solve tha issue.

Let us know how it somes out.

I've thought about using white LEDs for a number of things video but the experts tell me the spectral emission is all wrong but now I see on camera lights for film that use a bank of white LEDs. BTW you shouldn't have a problem with incandescent lamps and 100Hz flicker, the filaments have too much thermal mass. LEDs don't have an issue either as they have to be run off DC.
I'm using Elmo telecines at the moment and although the CCDs are a bit over the hill the results are quite acceptable. I've thought long and hard about the Workprinter solution but no one seems to want to pay for that quality of work, I could probably get my hands on a Bosch telecine for next to nought as well but the running costs are huge so again I'd have tto charge more than the market will bear.

Good Morning farss,

I decided on the CineMate unit rather than the WorkPrinter for the same reasons you note. Since the WorkPrinters are far less than real time, it would increase my labor costs by multiples, not to mention the processing time to do the pull down. The CineMates provide an excellent transfer quality.

If you have not explored Kodak's website, there is a wealth of info there. I usually start at http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/films.shtml

On the subject of lubrication, Kodak give the following formula for 8 and 16mm films. Note: I don't recommend mixing this at home:

Lubricant Formula
Many oils and waxes are not suitable for full-coat lubrication of film because they form globules or mottle instead of a smooth, uniform coating. On prints, such mottle causes flicker or random variations in density. Hence the nature of the oil or wax used, as well as the solvent used to dissolve and coat it, is of critical importance. Before it is used, any lubricant formula must be carefully tested for its temporary and permanent effects on the film. One satisfactory formula for full-coat lubrication follows:

Film Lubricant Formula (full coat)
PE Tetrastearate
(Pentaerythritol tetastearate)* 0.59 g
Methyl Chloroform (inhibited)** 1 L
*Available as pentaerythritol tetastearate, Chemical No. P7421 from Kodak Laboratory and Research Products, Rochester, NY 14650, or as Hercules B-16 Synthetic Wax, from Hercules Inc., Hercules Plaza, Wilmington, DE 19894.
**Available as 1,1,1-Trichloroethane, Chemical No. 3613 from Kodak Laboratory and Research Products, Rochester, NY 14650, or from Dow Chemical USA, 2020 Dow Center, Midland, MI 48674. CAUTION! Harmful if inhaled.

KODAK Movie Film Cleaner (with lubricant) may also be used for full-coat lubrication.

I am working on my website, I will be posting information on doing this:
One inexpensive way to telecine is to buy a 5 bladed projector.
They areavailable from someone called sam mishula in new york for about $200 or so. It converts the projector so it appears to be at 30 FPS which is the speed for most NTSC video. I am using a DVD camera now, but I was disappointed to find it was not a 3 ccd camera, so I might be looking into buying one of those sometime. It came out pretty good but I recommend only using paper VS a real screen, it seems to work better - the projecotr screen has a cross hatch effect that is really annoying. Also check out my site on how to develop movie film, obtaining chemicals, and other film links coming in the next few weeks!! www.twinankhs.com