A basic editing question

craftech wrote on 3/27/2013, 10:23 AM
There is something that I have been doing for years and never asked if there was a better way.

I work with several stage show performances and edit them into one video. I often synch the lips of the singers and even sometimes the actors with a sound track from another night.

Typically I have three or four video tracks and two audio tracks for each performance (Left channel and Right channel) so we are talking about an average of 3 video and six audio tracks.

What I find frustrating is:

1. Shift or ctrl selecting on the ones I want to split or move without Vegas accidentally selecting the ones I don't. Then deselecting the tracks I want to deselect without Vegas deselecting the ones I don't.
The whole thing has always seemed to take too long and is very frustrating.

2. Also, soloing and / or muting the tracks to see and hear how they sound. Or moving two audio tracks while I am listening to them to synch them up. Tedious.

Am I just getting old or is there a less time consuming and frustrating way to do this that I have missed all these years.

Thanks

John

Comments

BruceUSA wrote on 3/27/2013, 10:50 AM
If you working with multi camera audio. Get Pluraeyes. It do magic for you. I love it.

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Former user wrote on 3/27/2013, 10:53 AM
John,
I have fought #1 for a long time. I still haven't found an easy way to avoid splitting the wrong track, UNDO is my friend here.

On #2, I purchased a Nanokontrol audio controller that can be programmed for mutes and solos. This makes it easy to mute and solo a specific track.

Dave T2
craftech wrote on 3/27/2013, 11:27 AM
Dave,

Thanks for the reply.

#1: Makes me wonder why new versions of Vegas are always about "new" features instead of making what we do every day easier.

#2 That Korg controller seems interesting and reasonably priced. I assume you have programmed Vegas into it?

John

Former user wrote on 3/27/2013, 11:51 AM
I have programmed the Korg to do transport, Mute and Solo and set levels and balance. It is a little flaky at times but programming is not too hard and once you learn it's little idiosyncracies, it can save some keystrokes. It is programmed as a Midi Controller so it does not replace a Mouse or Shuttle Control.

I have also programmed it to work with Pro Tools, but certain functions do not work correctly, such as pans. But volume works well and the transports work good.

Look on Ebay, you can usually get it under $50, I think I paid $25 for mine.

There are two versions, I have the older model, so I can speak to the compatitbility of the newer one.

Dave T2
craftech wrote on 3/27/2013, 12:03 PM
Thanks Dave,

I see them here.

Here is a comment on the Nanokontrol2 from Amazon. I think I'll look for the original version.

I got the two because i saw some reviews online that suggested that it was more solidly built than the previous version.
John
TheHappyFriar wrote on 3/27/2013, 12:06 PM
1) The SHIFT & CTRL selection works just like Windows: click the first one, click another & SHIFT selects all in between, CTRL just selects what you click on. If you have multiple selected and want to select a range, then you CTRL click on the first in the range then SHIFT+CTRL click on the last one. Should keep all previous selected & select the range.

I normally don't split the wrong track, just in the wrong spot. "Measure twice, cut once" works in Vegas as well as with the table saw. :)

2) Soloing/muting can be a pain, mostly because (as far as I know) you need the track you want muted/soloed selected to use the shortcut key on it. For syncing up, I have always just placed a marker in the area to sync too, then move stuff there. I guess you could use the trimmer and add makers to the media in the trimmer at the sync points, then you just need to match up those media markers to your project marker, that could save time when syncing.
Former user wrote on 3/27/2013, 12:08 PM
Yeah, that's the one.

Dave T2
craftech wrote on 3/27/2013, 12:14 PM
Thanks Steve,

#1 I was wondering if there is maybe a way to put space between the tracks then the wrong things wouldn't be selected. It definitely doesn't always work as is should. Vegas selects things you didn't click on and deselection is just as bad.

What makes the problem even worse for me is that the Vegas behavior is much more pronounced when some of the tracks are muted and others are soloed.

#2 I do that. Time consuming, but I guess necessary.

John
Former user wrote on 3/27/2013, 12:20 PM
John,

Not a real good review for sure. There are a bunch of youtube videos about these devices.

The older one has 4 scenes you can store. It has 9 faders (which you can use scenes to allow you to access more than 9 tracks), and although they are not up to a studio professional standard, I find them very sturdy and easy to move. Base on the way Vegas has done the midi, it is hard to get the volume to land at 0db. I usually end up a decimal off, but here again, I wouldn't use it for critical work. You can use it during WRITE mode and do mixes that are stored and editable. It took me a while to figure out how to use the Korg software to program the unit, but I found a site online that helped with that.

Again, it is good for quick muting and soloing, transport and quick changing of audio levels. I also programmed some buttons to enable the READ WRITE and LATCH functions. I think it is worth the $25 I spent.

Dave T2
craftech wrote on 3/27/2013, 12:26 PM
Thanks again Dave.

John
K-Decisive wrote on 3/27/2013, 1:31 PM
There's several scripts out there that let you lock and unlock all of the events on a track. I use this alot. Once all the events on a track are locked, they can't be accidently split while you are splitting others.

(In vegas scripting) see:

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=21&MessageID=593694

The one I use was created by JetDV I believe, but I can't seem to find it. It comes with icons for lock and unlock, I have them set as buttons on the main tool bar. extreemly useful.

hope this helps,
Keith

Edit.
To create the unlock script. copy it to another file and change
evnt.Locked = true;
to
evnt.Locked = false;
craftech wrote on 3/27/2013, 2:40 PM
That sounds promising K,

So, if I want to split tracks 1 and 3 and not split 2 I can click button 2 to lock it, Place the cursor and hit S an only 1 and 3 are affected?

Sounds good.

Thanks,

John
chap wrote on 3/28/2013, 12:24 PM
Alternatively, here is a very good method I use for your problem with #1. The secret lies in IGNORE event grouping button. It is tedious to click the icon every time, so make a shortcut. You have to do a little keyboard mapping in order to enjoy this method. but I swear once you make this change F4 (or your selected key) will become your best friend.

I assume that you are grouping the tracks once you have them in sync, correct?

GO TO OPTIONS, CUSTOMIZE KEYBOARD, and type "ignore" under the "show commands containing" dialogue.

THEN, CHANGE THE DEFAULT SHORTCUT KEY TO "F4" (I think initially it is some big chain like CTRL + CHIFT + U) or somthing.

Once you have made a hotkey for IGNORE EVENT GROUPING you can then click on every event you want to split or move, and then Vegas will split ONLY that track or selected tracks. hit the key one more time, and you're moving the whole group again, after you performed an edit or whatever you like.

This one key saves me a lot of time when I have to edit 3 or 4 tracks of audio that are synched with 2 or 3 tracks of video.

Chap
farss wrote on 3/28/2013, 5:42 PM
Re #1:

This something I have complained about since day 1.
Having come from Premiere with its excellent Razor tool I felt lost in Vegas.

As mentioned there is a script to lock / unlock all events on a track which I've ound sort of useful. The problem with that is it can take some time for the script to run as it has to work on every event on a track. For a feature length movie that can be a lot of events.
What's also missing is a Lock All Except Selected Track capability. .

I very much agree, less bling and more attention to basic editng features is what's needed with Vegas.

One thing I have used from time to time with live shows and lots of audio tracks is this:
Render all the audio to one multichannel wave file. Then Vegas treats the audio and its channels as an entity and will make some effort towards keeing them in sync.

Bob.