MM,

You made several statements in the other thread regarding this subject. I addressed one of those which I have moved here. It goes as follows:

blink,

You sticking those links to AVS forum in every post you make. AVS became a nest for HD DUD zealots because of the moderators who are probably on M$ payroll.
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Reminds me of the rot the American networks feed the public every night about what is going in the world and in this country - no basis in fact just teaching misinformation as fact through endless repetition.

AVS HD DVD Players forum

AVS Blu-Ray Players forum

AVS HD DVD Software (movies) forum

AVS Blu-Ray Software (movies) forum

AVS Dual Format Players forum


Master list of the massive number of topics the AVS forums host.

John
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You never answered it. Now you continue in the same vein with new allegations with nothing to support it.

I clicked on Joshua Zyber's name in that article and found another article he wrote that explains his position on the formats. I will excerpt a few points he made:

"Editor's Note: A long-time movie buff and collector of discs from laserdisc to DVD, Joshua Zyber is a staff reviewer at DVDTalk, and an enthusiastic supporter of all things High Definition. In his twice-monthly High-Def Digest column, Josh discusses a broad range of topics of interest to other early adopters. "

"An Important Disclaimer

It seems that any article related to the High Definition format war will inevitably be picked apart and scrutinized for signs for bias (not without good reason in many cases), so before we go any further, I feel that I should address my own position in all of this. I've been covering both High-Def formats since each debuted, and have been described as biased towards HD DVD by some Blu-ray fans, mostly because I gave favorable ratings to early HD DVD hardware and discs, and negative marks to early Blu-ray equipment and software (apparently, the fact that Blu-ray really did have serious quality issues at its start doesn't matter to some people). The less-polite among them have called me a "shill" when it was in the interest of their own arguments to do so. I want to clear that up right now.

Unlike some supposedly objective editorialists covering the format war, I have never received any financial compensation or lucrative gifts from any party on either side of the issue. If offered such, I would reject it to avoid the conflict of interest or appearance of impropriety. I am currently on my second disc player for each format, all of which were purchased immediately upon release and paid for out of my own pocket. I have not attended any lavish Las Vegas parties thrown in my honor by the backers of one format or the other, nor do I write articles (paid or otherwise) for the official promotional web sites on either side. I have no ties to any corporation that would in any way influence my writing on the topic. My opinions are strictly my own, based on my own observations and experience.

I should also note that I have no insider knowledge into the business decisions of the companies discussed here. Everything I say in this article is based on publicly available information.

I am not a format fanboy, or a corporate shill. What I really am is a High Definition fan, so much so that I've gotten to the point where I can no longer watch standard DVDs, finding them blurry to the point of giving me a headache from straining to see detail that isn't there. I want every movie I watch to be in High Definition, mastered in the best quality presentation possible. Whichever format will deliver that to me makes me happy. I don't care whether a movie I like is released on Blu-ray or HD DVD, because I can play both discs.

That said, it's true that I was critical of Blu-ray early on. The fact is that HD DVD launched out of the gate with a more polished and impressive product than Blu-ray did, and at half the price. Over time (I'd like to think due to pressure from both buyers and critics like myself), the Blu-ray manufacturers and studios eventually cleaned up their acts, greatly improving their quality and at least somewhat bringing down their prices. Technical specifications aside, in actual practice the two formats are essentially indistinguishable today, and I consider that a big victory for both. As I said, all I want are great-looking High Definition movies, whatever it takes to get them. Nonetheless, I will still call things as I see them, and to that end I remain greatly annoyed by Blu-ray's lack of interactive features, seeming inability to finalize their format specs, and still exorbitant hardware pricing. At the same time, I am equally frustrated by HD DVD's continual problems with compatibility between Combo-format discs and HD DVD players. Neither format is perfect, but at their best both offer an amazing home theater experience. At less than their best, I have no hesitation about criticizing either one for their mistakes.

That's where I stand."


Now Mozart Man.

If you have something to support your claim that.........."Josh Zyber is a HDDVD shill like no other. This guy's opinion has no weight at all."................by all means please show us some evidence to support it FOR A CHANGE !!!

John

@craftech
You never answered it.
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I never answered what?

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quote from Joshua Zyber's article:

HD DVD has consistently sold more dedicated stand-alone disc players than Blu-ray, and stand-alone players have a much higher attach rate of discs sold (PS3 owners are more likely to buy the unit for games than for Blu-ray movies).

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quote from Blu-ray.com forum:

Does this idiot win an award for perhaps being the first person to count and not count the PS3 within the same sentence?

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=195374&postcount=2651

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Do you get the point? If not, let me know, I will chew it for you.

@craftech
You never answered it.
-------------------------------
I never answered what?
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You stated:

blink,

You sticking those links to AVS forum in every post you make. AVS became a nest for HD DUD zealots because of the moderators who are probably on M$ payroll.

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I showed you that the AVS forum is comprehensive and maintains forums on both BD players and software and HD DVD players and software equally as well as a host of other subjects

You never backed up your claim that:

"AVS became a nest for HD DVD zealots because of the moderators who are probably on M$ payroll" as you accused.

Instead you ignored my response presumably because you cannot back up that claim.
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quote from Joshua Zyber's article:

HD DVD has consistently sold more dedicated stand-alone disc players than Blu-ray, and stand-alone players have a much higher attach rate of discs sold (PS3 owners are more likely to buy the unit for games than for Blu-ray movies).

-------------------------------

quote from Blu-ray.com forum:

Does this idiot win an award for perhaps being the first person to count and not count the PS3 within the same sentence?

forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=195374&postcount=2651

-------------------------------

Do you get the point? If not, let me know, I will chew it for you.
==============

No I don't. I am used to quotes within the context of which they are stated.
I excerpt his disclaimer for you and quoted his position along with his criticisms of both formats and their implementation; and his interest in BOTH FORMATS because he truly likes Hi-Def. I feel the same way. I also agree with him that SD DVDs are still outselling BOTH Hi-Def formats so as to render bragging about sales of ALL Hi-Def discs to date a joke.

Perhaps his articles are too lengthy for you to read in their entirety and bloggers opinions are more suited to your cognitive capabilities because of their invariable brevity.

Respectfully,

John

Lets build up a few facts first,
1) which format BluRay or HD DVD delivered true 1080p out the HDMI first?
2) What was the lag time of the other format catching up with 1080p?
3) Which format BluRay or HD DVD actually demonstrated gaming with massive storage requirements?
4) Which big name techo director refuses to follow Universal and Paramount exclusive deals, name any other "known" directors refusing their studios deals?
5) which format BluRay or HD DVD has the real majority OEMs of PCs.
6) which format BluRay or HD DVD has the real majority of actual manufacturing facilities for "players" and HD TVs?
7) which format BluRay or HD DVD has the majority of actual "known" consumer brand names?
8) which format BluRay or HD DVD has the most known hours of use per day?
9) which format BluRay or HD DVD has the most Fortune 500 Retailers with exclusive shelve display deals?
10) which format BluRay or HD DVD has actual home media centers with their players built in?
11) which format BluRay or HD DVD has the most retail commercial "content" disks in big box retailers on the market? ( could be a trick question)
12)which format BluRay or HD DVD player can operate without high speed Internet connection( like in vacation land, boats,in the mountains, etc... or South America)?
13) which format BluRay or HD DVD requires licensing fees if you want to build something more than the basic menu from "you know who"? ( cost of documents and etcs...)
14)which format BluRay or HD DVD actually had burners and media on the market for a while?
15)which format BluRay or HD DVD does Apple openly promotes in their advance editor training classes?
16)which format BluRay or HD DVD employs the most scientists and engineers in the world?
17)which format BluRay or HD DVD employs the most 100 top scientists and engineers in the world?

This is first part, there's a lot more, if time permits, a closer look of Josh Zyber "facts" used in his opinion. Josh is entitled to his opinion, but since he puts his opinion out in the public as something of "value", its open to be analyze and rejected if its found lacking substance or opinion based on forum rumors. Opinions base-on rumors have some value in trend analysis, but little or no value in market sales. Of course, enough mis-information/rumors over vast networks can have product impact as long as the sources have credibility with the public. Joe buyer is not that impressed with Internet chat as being factual, but is entertain with it. AVS and similar HD DVD forums lack this credibility with the average Joe buyer because BluRay would be dead, MS would be bankrupt, Al Gore would be President of the UN and Clinton would be World Leader for life.

You left one out Apit:

Which format SD DVD or (Blu-Ray-HD DVD) accounts for the vast majority of market sales?

HINT: Josh Zyber answered the question somewhere in that article.

John

Didn't find the answer???

Second Hint: It's the one that "average Joe Buyer" spends his money on regularly.

Sheesh!! Still can't find the answer?

Okay. Third Hint: It's what Craftech bought his HD DVD player to upscale.

gee, how long has SD been in the market............ Try actually discussing the format issue between BluRay and HD DVD. You'll get no argument from me that SD sales are strong, the same happen when SD was introduce against VHS.

gee, how long has SD been in the market............ Try actually discussing the format issue between BluRay and HD DVD. You'll get no argument from me that SD sales are strong, the same happen when SD was introduce against VHS.
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Quite frankly, I think the whole argument is retarded. I like Hi-Def discs, but not the price of the combo discs they insist on releasing in HD DVD format. As I said, I bought the HD-A1 to upscale SD DVDs. It does a great job of upscaling my creations when I show them to clients and at 5 for $20 from Hollywood Video for used movies I'm happy.

If I had purchased a BD player (much more expensive at the time) I'd have been happy with that too. There is room for both formats especially that unlike SD DVDs vs VHS both Hi-Def formats could die as a result of this retarded fued.

John

So how about them 8-Track tapes? I had a freind that even had an 8-track tape recorder. Only one I ever saw. You could record a song and it would change tracks right in the middle of the song...automatically! All you could hear was a slight pause and a chu-chung sound as the mechanism dropped to the next track. Now that was some sweet technology.

So how about them 8-Track tapes? I had a freind that even had an 8-track tape recorder. Only one I ever saw. You could record a song and it would change tracks right in the middle of the song...automatically! All you could hear was a slight pause and a chu-chung sound as the mechanism dropped to the next track. Now that was some sweet technology.
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That was before my time Jim. Must have been fun to have in your 57 Chevy.

John

"Quite frankly, I think the whole argument is retarded" Well, I agree with you that it gets too personal sometimes and everyone is entitled to their own opinion--------- as long as they agree with mine ;-) ;-) ;-)

I had an 8 track in the 69' boss mustang, I don't remember the brand( Pioneer?), but sure remember the stretching tape death of many of my favorite tapes.

So anyway, whatever happened to DVHS?
That I did like the idea of.

Bob.