about 3D LE.

satish wrote on 11/22/2002, 2:06 PM

Here is a post made by GG in the CreativeCOW Vegas forum.

> Now you might understand why I was banned just before the
> release of 3D LE that "I" developed for a year and I had
> Satish write the code in his spare time in the last few weeks.

Correction, the 3D LE plugin was developed by "me" (i.e. Satish).

I can readily publish all the mails between me and GG, where it is totally evident that he was talking all about Boris RED (in fact he sent screenshots of Boris RED and asked if i could do like that). The ideas that GG claims to have given for 3D LE are all present in BorisRED and those not present were totally thought of by me (like the perspective slider control that i had put in from the very first build). There is not one piece of real idea that GG has given on his own...

Here is a snippet of what he wrote when i started developing the plugin.
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GG's mail
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Consider on selling this plugin when you finish it. Don't allow people to beta without an NDA signed and a timed out version for ttesting only. I assure you I am not going to take it. I want to see you do this. Maybe the two of uscan pefect this and you won't need a beta team from the public. Think about how you can protect it with a unique assigned serial number to activate it. Think about copy protecting so oe person does not buy i and then give copies out to others.The activation serial number needs to tie ito each computer and each VV3 app somehow to stay unique. Maybe offer a timed demo with a large X in the view so no one can use it without buyng it. It stops working after a week. You need a setup to accept payments online, over the phone or in mail to secure payments. Depending on how much you end up offering a user, you can probably get $99 for a basic app and maybe $199 if it becomes real advanced
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my reply to that
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But seriously, i am not thinking about money. I'm looking at making it free as i do other stuff now... what is yourtake inthis?
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GG's reply to that
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Well, you could release a basic 3D now. That would make the Star Wars people happy. It could be free for very basic to get a following of your designs. Then sell the advanced model and advanced presets.
But remember, one plugin for $100 can easily sell 100 VV3 user for $10,000. Maybe 1,000 VV3 users and you got $100,000. Not bad for one plug in a few months. [G]
Now calculate that "adavnced" plug for $200 and there is $200,000. You can give me half. [G]
-----------------

See how money minded he was when i wanted to provide a free plugin. He didnt even want anyone else to do a beta test of the plugin, such a narrow minded person.

I dont claim i thought of the plugin for a year, but i take pride in having developed, authored and wrote the plugin in such a short span and providing support for my users. Also i take pride in doing this for free and not boasting all the time that "I wrote", "I developed" etc.. It's such a shame that a person like GG should talk all sugary in the beginning and when i refuse to give him more credit talk all crap about me and my software.

I really dont have to take this, after all i do software and provide it for free with support round the clock. All my users will agree what great support i give, you can find it at the debugmode forums as well. If i keep getting such a reception, i'll be driven to stop developing free plugins for Vegas and other NLEs.

Hope that doesnt happen. Hope i meet better people in future.

- Satish

Comments

Former user wrote on 11/22/2002, 2:14 PM

Thanks for the explanation concening the plug in. Your work for Vegas is very much appreciated so I hope this doesn't dissuade you from further development on 3dLE and other plugins.

I also hope you and GG can work this out. It sounds like it might have started as a good collaboration effort.

Dave T2

FuTz wrote on 11/22/2002, 2:25 PM

I witnessed all, ALL of this, Satish.
BITE HIM !!! And bite him well!
In fact, I was very surprised when he said HE developped the plugin, knowing that YOU did it. From there on, I made my mind about this guy...

FadeToBlack wrote on 11/22/2002, 3:07 PM

Sr_C wrote on 11/22/2002, 3:19 PM

Hey guys,

Can you keep this argument between just the two of you. Whether you've had problems working together or not, the fact is that most of us here respect the both of you and feel that you both contribute greatly. Please don't ask us to take sides on your argument. I hope both of you success in your future endeavors and I hope that both of you keep a presence here in this forum. -Shon

satish wrote on 11/22/2002, 3:24 PM

I'm sorry for the trouble Sr_C. I tried to maintain my decency for a long time... but i cant stand being provoked more and more everyday. Tell me, if you write software and distribute for free (of course without boasting around about yourself and your knowledge etc etc), would you like someone ripping you off all the hard work you do and go around stealing your credit?

Anyway i'm sorry again, i hope this is the last post i do regarding this.

Satish

satish wrote on 11/22/2002, 3:27 PM

Ok i was into morphing. So? You showed me screenshots of Boris. What else was new in that?

I asked people for beta testing, and i didnt expect a beta tester going around saying that he developed the software. All the algorithms, implementation, and the hardwork of doing something in VV which isnt directly possible are the product of my hard work... and you sent me screenshots of Boris (bcos i didnt have Boris, if only i had...) asking if i could reproduce that.

Go on, work with your 'team'. I could care less, i'm not into competition with anyone. I do software for my passion and share my work with the world, not for publicity.

FadeToBlack wrote on 11/22/2002, 3:34 PM

wcoxe1 wrote on 11/22/2002, 3:43 PM

My, my, my! Gentlemen, please go to your rooms. This has no business here. If there is a legitimate dispute, settle it like gentlemen. If there is none, shut up!

We, the VV users, appreciate any an ALL work done on our behalf. However, we did not ask for this squabble and don't want or need it.

If you want to contribute, we are all here and willing to help. There are a lot of good "beta testers" in this world, and you should have no trouble getting adequate help should you need it in the future. Just ask.

nanjil wrote on 11/22/2002, 3:52 PM

please don't stop and continue developing !!
These are knocks in life that can happen to anybody

TorS wrote on 11/22/2002, 4:06 PM

My basic sentiment is with Sr_Cs line (see his post in this thread). Settle this like gentlemen, and preferably settle it somewhere else.
On the other hand, the 3D LE is such a great contribution to this community that maybe we "bystanders" should hold our fire for a while and let the squabble (if that's the word) evolve. These two people certainly have put their hearts into this, that gives them a right to be heard on whatever they feel the need to tell us about the process. We should listen. And learn.

Tor

FuTz wrote on 11/22/2002, 6:01 PM

GG
So you developped it yourself? Well. Excuse me sir!
But... how did Satish got involved in your project? What? Aaah, you needed somebody to program it... ok.
I have the idea of winning the next Bowl, all I need now is a football team and since I got the idea, we'll probably share kif-kif... the team on one side, and me.
I wish you all the wealth since your "open mind" seems to crave for it...
Anyway, it's not of my boozeness (anybody will agree on that, hahaha!)

Satish, don't stop creating please. Let the clouds pass...
10-9

rextilleon wrote on 11/22/2002, 6:15 PM

I like both GG and Satish, and considering the fact that the Cow forum is really no longer an option, it would be nice if we could get along---Why dont you guys just ignore each other and the topic of the Plug-ins----Maybe just address questions people have about Morph and 3D. Just my two cents.

BillyBoy wrote on 11/22/2002, 9:41 PM

Reminds me of a story....

Many years ago when computers were still fairly new, huge and scary to a lot of people, I got a new job in the accounting field. Not important. One of my duties was to oversee the transfer of all the accounting "stuff" to the computer system.

We had a elderly treasurer, who had a "plan", oh, he was developing it for a couple years. On paper it sounded good. In practice, there were more holes in it then there are in a pound of swiss cheese.

So hours every day me and the head programmer would get together and "fix" Charlie's (the treasurer) plan so it could actually work. Once a week Charlie took us to lunch. Charlie liked, no, he LOVED to drink. So lunch was at least a two or three hour affair. The topic of course was 'how is the new system coming along? We would answer, then Charlie would start talking at 100 MPH, making all kinds of changes. Sherm, the programmer (poor guy) dragged all his flow charts with him to lunch. Every week there would be changes, ASAP, from Charlie. Because he was stewed, much of what he wanted to change didn't make sense. We tried to tell him. Boy did we try.

This went on for months. To make a long story short, Charlies retired. We finshed the transfer of the manual systems a couple months after.

GG is Charlie. A nice enough guy I'm sure. I know he and I have had words in the past. Water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. He does have a ego. So do I. Big deal.

My point? Coming up with "ideas" is good, but unless you know HOW to write the code to make it a reality ideas are just so much writing on paper.

Satich did the hard part. Taking a idea and making it happen. I thank GG for the concept, but most of the credit obviously should go to Satish.

Thanks to both of you. Now my advice is kiss and make up.

satish wrote on 11/22/2002, 10:12 PM

I'm fine with it, that was how i was all the while - until today when i saw another post claiming he developed it and i slaved for him - couldnt bear it any longer.

FadeToBlack wrote on 11/22/2002, 11:04 PM

Jimco wrote on 11/22/2002, 11:45 PM

It's sad to see so many people placing themselves in a bad light. I'm not sure what the intent of all of this is, but it certainly doesn't seem to be accomplishing anything constructive.

Perhaps you should take this offline before Sonic decides to shut down this forum and we all lose another resource due to the bickering of a few folks.

Jim

BillyBoy wrote on 11/22/2002, 11:56 PM

You REALLY need to do something about your oversized ego, GG. Really.
For you to attempt to suggest you are a "team player" while trying to paint Satish as only following your directions is laughable. Obviously you don't know zilsh about programming.

You don't just want respect, you demand it. That ego thing again. As I told you some months back you act like a prima donna. You just don't want to be one of guys, you need to be king and you expect everyone to bend down and kiss your pinky ring. Sorry, I NEVER kissed anybody's butt and for sure yours won't be the first.

The whole point of this forum and others is to share. No strings attached. You seem to use forums to stroke your ego. Pity, you have a lot to share.

FadeToBlack wrote on 11/23/2002, 12:11 AM

BillyBoy wrote on 11/23/2002, 12:16 AM

Like I said: EGO, EGO, EGO!

You remind me of a spoiled five year old who's mommy didn't buy him the latest toy he wanted. You're always bawling about something, if not in this forum, others. Geez... GROW UP!

I hope you feel better trying to attack me. Shame you can't hear me laughing at you.

PLEASE set the ignore user. I suspect you'll get the same treatment. I for one I'm tired of your king of the hill crap.

FuTz wrote on 11/23/2002, 8:37 AM

Booo-ooo-oooo..! With all those tears I'm crying, I'll try at least to choke this fire I made...
Like I said, I'm so sorry...
The only thing: since you mentionned it, if I switch on the "ignore" option will I owe you something? 'Cause YOU came with the idea before I did ... maybe I should hire a lawyer?
OK, enough said. If you get too angry, I fear I won't be able to use VV anymore because you'll drain all my creativity back since you probably gave it to me in the first time...
Bottom line: don't mess with God if you don't want the Holy Lightning Bold strike you!
(yes, I'm still crying now...)
Now I'm pulling the plug: it's true that it's like putting gas to the fire...(to the tip of a match, it seems to me)
Smile, life is beautiful \Ü/

Sr_C wrote on 11/23/2002, 8:38 AM

Here is the only "truth" that I can see.

Satish and GG should have worked out the developing credits before releasing anything. It is obviously important to both of them, why they wouldn't have squared this away privatly is beyond me. Like I said before, I respect both of you for your knowledge and willingness to help others, but I also think you are being immature by bringing this fight into this forum. The fact is, most of us want to credit the right person/persons for the development of these tools but it is not our job to have to figure out who that is, that should have been done before release. That fact that it wasn't is the fault of the both of you and now, after the fact, how can you bring this to us instead of trying to resolve "offline"?

Having said that... Since bringing this to the forums, you are seeking others opinions. So here's mine.

GG, your example of the playground is not a valid one. Apples and oranges, in fact. In the world of construction, it is in fact the designer that has the advanced skills, not the builder. The builder is simply following directions. The architects are the ones writing those instructions, which is where the vision and skill comes into play. This is not the same for software. The one who writes and manipulates the code is in fact the designer and the builder. If you designed the software and actually wrote the code but asked Satish to merely input it for you, well then you have a legitimate complaint. But from what I can see, it looks as though you just offered your opinion and desires to Satish and offered up advice on end user functionality. Which in my opinion would boil down to this statement: Satish designed 3DLE and GG helped him. Yes, I am aware that I have not read all the post or the 25 or whatever chat sessions, but you know what, if you think that means we don't have a valid opinion, then don't bring your fight to the public square.

Billyboy is right. your ego has inflated beyond your ability to rationalise.

If you want credit, then when you partner up with someone work that out before you release anything. If you do not do that, then you have no valid argument.

And remember:
All any of us wanted to ever do was say thank you to both of you.

Regards, -Shon

vonhosen wrote on 11/23/2002, 9:04 AM

I'm no programmer ( Satish is obviously a fast working good one) & I'm afraid I'm relatively a newbie to videography (at which GG is very willing to pass on his creative ideas & skills with tutorials). But one thing I do know from life is about "perspective" & how two or more people can view exactly the same event & have totally different recollections of it's passing.

I'm not here to slate either of you. I for one admire & repsect what both of you have to offer, but as earlier mentioned "credit" whether financial or kudos should have been sorted out prior to the product being released and all this sorry mess started.

The common ground you shared at the start of this project is now divided by a massive canyon. While we've learned to use "your" valuable plug-in you've both learned a business lesson.

You clearly don't need each other anymore, but I for one (and I suspect others) need people like you. I wish you both well in the future, success in your future endeavours & trust neither of you will get bitten again.

Hopefully you can both draw a line , never mention it again , be positive and "Move On" to greater things. You both have skills to offer & I sincerely hope to see your endeavours posted here for the benefit of us (& you if you are creating to live). Don't let this spat kill your drive for a more productive Vegas.