Adding/placing closed captioning text

mark-woollard wrote on 9/19/2005, 10:21 AM
A client has inquired "what would it take to add closed captioning" to an existing production that's out on DVD.

I've never done this before and any experience/advice would be appreciated. It's a 40-minute documentary with lots of talking heads.

After checking a couple of websites, I'm assuming about $150 - $200 for a professional transcription company to transribe the text. Not sure if getting time-code reference would help in the subsequent placement process in Vegas or DVA Architect.

Roughly how much time should I assume it would take me to properly time the text to the spoken words?

Thanks
Mark

Comments

Former user wrote on 9/19/2005, 10:38 AM
Dont forget the cost of the software to encode the closed captioning.

Dave T2
johnmeyer wrote on 9/19/2005, 12:10 PM
First of all, make sure that you and the client are speaking the same language. There are two completely different ways of putting text onto video:

1. Closed Captioning. This is embedded in the video stream in the Vertical Blanking Interval (VBI). This is what you get on your TV set with over-the-air, cable, or satellite broadcasts. Neither Vegas nor DVD Architect provide any tools to either read or create Closed Captioning. I wish they did, but they don't.

2. Subtitles. This is the text that only exists on DVDs. You can have multiple subtitles, each in a different language, and the user can decide which ones to display. You can put regions on the Vegas timeline that specify the exact start and stop time for each subtitle. The name of the region will be transferred to the subtitle. You use a script, included with Vegas, to export these regions to a file that DVD Architect can read.

You can get a quick feel for how long it will take per subtitle by simply placing a region on the Vegas timeline, and then naming it. Take a stopwatch, do perhaps six of these, and the extrapolate from the timing you get.

If you already have the text for your subtitles (with each subtitle on a separate line), you can paste that into the Regions section of the Edit Details view, and then adjust the timing on the timeline (actually, because of bugs in Vegas, you have to past into the Markers section and then convert to Regions). If you do this from a spreadsheet, you can use spreadsheet logic to generate approximate "start" timing for each marker, thus further reducing the time you have to spend adjusting each start/stop point.

Do a search on both this forum and the DVDA forum for "subtitles" in order to get more info.

JohnnyRoy wrote on 9/19/2005, 12:11 PM
> Not sure if getting time-code reference would help in the subsequent placement process in Vegas or DVA Architect.

Absolutely! If you are planning to use DVD Architect to make these subtitles (which is not the same as CC but all that DVDA can do), tell the translators that this is the format of the file you need:
0000	00:00:07:57	00:00:20:52	First spoken line



0001	00:00:25:43	00:00:43:61	Next spoken line
That is the exact format of the DVDA Subtitle file. Here is an explanation:
[Line#	Start TC	End TC		Transcribed text]

0000	00:00:07:57	00:00:20:52	First spoken line

[blank line]
If they can give you a file in that format, all you have to do is import it into DVDA and you’re done. Have them place a TAB between each column and a blank line after each line. Time code is hours : minutes : seconds : 100th of a second

~jr
farss wrote on 9/19/2005, 1:57 PM
Interesting thread, I'm just a bout to tackle my first subtitled DVD.
Now here's a real difficult one.
Anyone got a clue how to get the CC data off a DigiBetacam tape?
Bob.
Former user wrote on 9/19/2005, 2:03 PM
Are you wanting the data stream or just wanting to see it?

You could run it through a VCR or TV with a caption decoder and record that signal. That is if you just want to see it.

If you want the data stream, you need a box capable of reading the stream and software that will translate it to text.

Dave T2
johnmeyer wrote on 9/19/2005, 3:23 PM
Anyone got a clue how to get the CC data off a DigiBetacam tape?

My ATI capture card includes a utility that will put the CC text into a file. Can't remember whether it logs timecode or not. There are various shareware and freeware utilities at videohelp.com and doom9.org that can also work with a capture card to get this information. Getting the text is easy, and I know you can do it because I've done it myself. Getting the timing is going to be the tricky part, but as noted above, I believe it can be done.
farss wrote on 9/19/2005, 5:46 PM
Thanks guys,
just realies this could be way more tricky than I'd though as DVDA doesn't sipport CC however unless Im wrong should that be part of the mpeg encoding if it;s to go into one line of the vision so the external decoder can read it.
What I'd originally thought to do is convert the CC to subtitles but given how CC works the wheels could easily fall off that.
Anyway, something to keep in the back of the brain. I know Convergent are coming up with a way to handle this, maybe I should pursue them and how they're going to handle it, I think from memory they can even write CC data into a DV stream.
Bob.
johnmeyer wrote on 9/19/2005, 6:42 PM
I think from memory they can even write CC data into a DV stream

That is definitely correct: DV can contain the line 21 VBI CC data.

I am not so certain about how to encode this into MPEG-2. I do know for certain that DirecTV satellite TV includes CC, and I think this is some variant of an MPEG-2 stream.
filmy wrote on 9/20/2005, 8:15 AM
Just to be claer - Vegas does not currently support Close Captioning. Subtitles are not the same thing.

Not a Vegas solution as far as doing it inside the program - but might be of intrest - BK-2500 brochure. Allows for encoding of DV25 and Mpeg2 material with Time Code, Teletext and Close captioning info. RS-422 support, network support, will burn DVD's and makes you breakfast in the morning. Ok, well, not the breakfast part. If you just want the hype here is the sell sheet: Why Buy?.

From the FAQ -

Currently, the BK-2500 works with editing systems through an RS-422 connection, IEEE-1394 connection, or LAN. If your NLE system can control a connected RS-422 or IEEE-1394 device, then this NLE system can control the BK-2500 as a player or recorder deck.

The current video archive would need to be converted to DV or AVI Type-1, AVI Type-2, or QuickTime file format and this conversion process can be done by the BK-2500. The BK-2500 would preserve closed caption, 3 lines of teletext and SMPTE timecode of the original AV sources. Once the old video archive assets are converted into digital DV based format with embedded closed caption, teletext and SMPTE timecode, these clips can easily be access from the BK-2500. The BK-2500 would also create permanent DVD copies of these AV assets in either DV or MPEG2 formats. You would use these “new� assets the same way you are now using your tape-based assets.

But keep in mind Vegas does not output Time Code, Close Captioning or teletext so you would still need a way to get these things onto/into the file even if you had this unti. Outside of CPC-700NLE I am not sure of many software solutions that allow for Close Captioning. It is kind of surprising because the FCC has a date for *all* new programs and muc of the older ones to have CC info on them - at least for Broadcast. I was not aware of the ruling until a few months ago when I met a person who works for a company out in Malibu, Ca that does CC'ing for programs. She told me there is a massive amount of work coming in because of the coming deadline, and the hardest of it was old analog tapes that were coming in - many on 3/4. (According to here all ther stuff is digitized in one suite, and puit on aserver. They have other suites where people sit and transcribe everything and do the data entry. Than it goes to another suite for endcoding) For me, and us, it means we have to start thinking about it as well - so my concept is that we might start seeing software like Vegas having the ability to place the CC info on output. I mean vegas loves to have things available for broadcast - scopes, the "broadcast colors" filter - so i don't think it would be that far of a stretch to think someone might be working on a CC portion.

From a September 17, 1998 FCC News Release -

On August 7, 1997, the Commission adopted an order (FCC 97-279) that included rules and implementation schedules for captioning of video programming ensuring access to video programming by persons with hearing diabilities.

[SNIP]

In the Commission's Closed Captioning order, the Commission established a level of 95% of new nonexempt programming as the definition of accessibility. On reconsideration, the Commission defines full accessibility to be the captioning of 100% of all new nonexempt video programming.

[SNIP]

The Commission also establishes a requirement that at least 30% of a channel's pre-rule programming be provided with captions beginning on January 1, 2003.

Current regulations

All English language programming prepared or formatted for display on analog television and first shown on or after January 1, 1998, as well as programming prepared or formatted for display on digital television that was first published or exhibited after July 1, 2002 (“digital programming�), is considered “New Programming,� and must be captioned according to benchmarks set by the FCC. The following benchmarks establish how much “New Programming� must be captioned each calendar quarter:


If you want to read more: Rules and Regulations - 47 C.F.R. § 79.1