Adjustment Events on Don't Work on Most Blend Modes on Tracks. VP22

ghostt wrote on 9/21/2024, 10:05 AM

Build 122, as well as previous builds of Vegas 22, and 21, but works on first build of Vegas 21, build 108.

Placing an Adjustment Event onto a track with a blend mode (dodge,burn,darken,overlay,cut,multiply mask,subtract) will either do nothing, or if there's pan-crop on the adjustment event it will break the preview making it black (using the behavior on a dodge track as an example)

Alternatively on older versions of VP21 (in this example, VP21 build 108), doing this will act as if you placed a duplicate of the layer below, as it should. Allowing you to pan-crop and apply effects on different blend modes

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boundless-beta wrote on 9/23/2024, 1:48 AM

Maybe I can give another perspective on this behavior.

When an adjustment event is added to the timeline, everything below the event is essentially flattened and pushed into the adjustment event's place. Everything below the event is then effectively cleared, leaving only the adjustment event with an effective image (as far as that track is concerned).

Adding a blend mode to the track containing the adjustment track will therefore blend everything that was below it with what is now nothing, resulting in a blank image for some modes.

One way to show this is by using the "Displacement Map" composite mode on the track with the adjustment event. Normally, this mode displaces everything below the track using its own contents as the map, but since everything below was effectively cleared when the event was added, the mode will show a blank screen as it tries to displace an empty image. Checking "Flip Input Sources" and "Alpha Channel scales RGB channels" should show the flattened contents of the adjustment event with no displacement as the map is now empty.

If you still wish to blend the adjustment event with everything beneath it, what you can do is parent an empty track to the track with the adjustment event, set the parent track's blend mode to what you want, then modify the adjustment event in some way. (see image, works as of ver. 22 b122).

I hope this helps!

RogerS wrote on 9/23/2024, 2:19 AM

@boundless-beta Thank you for this, I think it's perceptive as to how the adjustment events work and why some modes end up as black. I do wonder if this is an oversight vs intentional behavior, though.

LdM_Edit wrote on 9/23/2024, 7:51 AM

@boundless-beta Thanks for the clarifying comment. This is what I was referring to when I suggested some sort of "Use Compositing Mode" button for adjustment events. All tracks in VEGAS have a compositing mode. My understanding is that the default "Source alpha" mode was causing undesirable results in some situations when using adjustment events, so it seems like they altered the usual video signal flow in VEGAS for them. But now there may be undesirable results in other situations. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me these two types of behaviour are incompatible, so giving the user the option to choose could be a solution.

ghostt wrote on 9/23/2024, 8:38 AM

Maybe I can give another perspective on this behavior.

When an adjustment event is added to the timeline, everything below the event is essentially flattened and pushed into the adjustment event's place. Everything below the event is then effectively cleared, leaving only the adjustment event with an effective image (as far as that track is concerned).

Adding a blend mode to the track containing the adjustment track will therefore blend everything that was below it with what is now nothing, resulting in a blank image for some modes.

One way to show this is by using the "Displacement Map" composite mode on the track with the adjustment event. Normally, this mode displaces everything below the track using its own contents as the map, but since everything below was effectively cleared when the event was added, the mode will show a blank screen as it tries to displace an empty image. Checking "Flip Input Sources" and "Alpha Channel scales RGB channels" should show the flattened contents of the adjustment event with no displacement as the map is now empty.

If you still wish to blend the adjustment event with everything beneath it, what you can do is parent an empty track to the track with the adjustment event, set the parent track's blend mode to what you want, then modify the adjustment event in some way. (see image, works as of ver. 22 b122).

I hope this helps!

I can get where your coming from but it's hard to believe its intentional considering how inconsistent it is, especially the result being black instead of no changes being applied, but only sometimes having no change, but then always causing a black screen if pan-crop is applied (which shouldn't realistically make any difference in blending behavior)

If we are basing it off of After Effects, it shouldn't require the workaround and should ideally work in a similar fashion to the example video of Vegas 21 Build 108

Vegas 21 build 108
After Effects

For someone like me who was introduced to adjustment events in that build of vegas, I found a lot of uses for that behavior and it was extremely strange to have something I was used to acting a certain way (whether in AE or Vegas) then be restricted in later builds (assuming this was an intentional change and not just a side effect of the other bugfix mentioned by roger)

Also, maybe I misunderstood part of that slightly, but if the event was on a blend layer, we still have the original event to blend with no? Like if you lower the opacity of a adjustment event it still works correctly and will show the changes at 50% for example, even in newer builds I believe, which would imply the program still takes into account the "unedited" layers beneath when blending. Which again would make it way out of character for it to not take it into account when using a blend layer

ghostt wrote on 9/23/2024, 8:51 AM

You're right. I think this is an additional issue, as soon as you hit pan/crop the image breaks and it goes black. Restore to defaults and the image returns.

My guess here is that nobody thought to crop an adjustment event (not really sure when that would be useful to do, so maybe the functionality should just be disabled?)

I put pan/crop back to normal and then just added invert and it also goes black with the dodge blending mode:

I can see how a track blending mode + adjustment event could be useful so think this should be fixed vs disabled.

Ideally pan-crop shouldn't be disabled, it is useful for me consistently and I know several people who use it often. I use it usually to create ghosting (sorta like the example vids on the old vegas build) as well as a few other effects that benefit from scaling them differently

ghostt wrote on 9/23/2024, 9:15 AM

Maybe I can give another perspective on this behavior.

When an adjustment event is added to the timeline, everything below the event is essentially flattened and pushed into the adjustment event's place. Everything below the event is then effectively cleared, leaving only the adjustment event with an effective image (as far as that track is concerned).

Adding a blend mode to the track containing the adjustment track will therefore blend everything that was below it with what is now nothing, resulting in a blank image for some modes.

One way to show this is by using the "Displacement Map" composite mode on the track with the adjustment event. Normally, this mode displaces everything below the track using its own contents as the map, but since everything below was effectively cleared when the event was added, the mode will show a blank screen as it tries to displace an empty image. Checking "Flip Input Sources" and "Alpha Channel scales RGB channels" should show the flattened contents of the adjustment event with no displacement as the map is now empty.

If you still wish to blend the adjustment event with everything beneath it, what you can do is parent an empty track to the track with the adjustment event, set the parent track's blend mode to what you want, then modify the adjustment event in some way. (see image, works as of ver. 22 b122).

I hope this helps!

I can get where your coming from but it's hard to believe its intentional considering how inconsistent it is, especially the result being black instead of no changes being applied, but only sometimes having no change, but then always causing a black screen if pan-crop is applied (which shouldn't realistically make any difference in blending behavior)

If we are basing it off of After Effects, it shouldn't require the workaround and should ideally work in a similar fashion to the example video of Vegas 21 Build 108

Vegas 21 build 108
After Effects

For someone like me who was introduced to adjustment events in that build of vegas, I found a lot of uses for that behavior and it was extremely strange to have something I was used to acting a certain way (whether in AE or Vegas) then be restricted in later builds (assuming this was an intentional change and not just a side effect of the other bugfix mentioned by roger)

Also, maybe I misunderstood part of that slightly, but if the event was on a blend layer, we still have the original event to blend with no? Like if you lower the opacity of a adjustment event it still works correctly and will show the changes at 50% for example, even in newer builds I believe, which would imply the program still takes into account the "unedited" layers beneath when blending. Which again would make it way out of character for it to not take it into account when using a blend layer

@boundless-beta @RogerS I tried editing the post in time but, here is the test in VP22, if the adjustment event was in theory removing the events beneath, causing it to not have anything to blend with, lowering the opacity should reveal the unedited event below. Regardless though, a black result should never be possible with a dodge blend mode.