Yes, interesting findings, Grazie.

I'll never come across this, since I always capture whole tapes, then if necessary divide them up as Regions in the - what was that thing called - Grinner? Trumper? Trimmer - yes, that was it, Trimmer ...... ( walks off in slightly wavy line... )

Bob -

The grief IS about:

1/- Being understood in the first place - that's now gone! You tested it and found the thing to be wanting. This is a good thing.

2/- As you don't work like I do, you wont recognise the value of being able to double checking PRIOR to getting back to a vary complex MULTI clip/event screen that has many many clips/events on it and trying from there to then figure out which and what to delete OR rename - htere maybe others too. That's the grief. That's why you don't get it 'cos you don't work like that. Vegas DOES have this facilty for people LIKE me who do make mistakes and work like I do AND need to have the option of recifying their mistakes PRIOR to getting back to a cluttered screen with lots of clips/events.

3/- . . there is no 3/-

Your, "To be honest .. " thing is based on how YOU and others work. Up to now I have pulled in whole chunks of miniDV and away I go. This time I've got something like 30 minDVs that I and my client wish to nick maybe 100 events off 14 tapes and collect them in a space. I really don't want to capture 14 tapes - don't have the space - HAH! - for the puroses of grabbing hold of 100 - 4 or 5 or 6 second - clips. That's the value of AdvVidCap PLUS its naming functions plus its ability to offer several layers of checking - the point in case being exactly one of them - so to have this WORKING as it is suggested to be working WOULD be excellent! NO! I don't want it removed! No - this time - I don't work like you, and this is also part of my feedback. Just because I don't work like you, doesn't mean that what I'm looking for something to happen - its there as plain as eggs - it should happen, but please don't gainsay, because you don't work like me, I shouldn't have this working! That's just plain weird!

I think the only thing you have missed is what I attempted to explain above.

Look, it would be a great function if it did do what it saiod would do AT THE TIME OF NEDING IT! I want it to work.

Bob, thanks for your honesty. I've enjoyed having to make myself understood,

Best regards,

Grazie

Whoa,
I understand HOW your working!
What I'm saying is you CAN do EXACTLY the same thing (I think), you close that window and you have ANOTHER window that offers you the SAME options!

Now maybe I've missed some subtle point but from what I can see you can do exactly what you want. If you cannot do it in the main AdvVidCap window then maybe I've missed something. I'm not trying to tell you WHAT to do I'm trying to show you another way to do the SAME thing!

Bob.

We are getting there . . well done Bob:

I understand HOW your working! . .well, not fully.

What I'm saying is you CAN do EXACTLY the same thing yes the functioning is the same . . but .. .

(I think), you close that window Ahah! I don't want to have to close this window, because I DO get back to a window with masses of clips in it! That's the point, that's THE only point. Sony may have another reason for allowing us - if it wasn't greyed out - but to my way of thinking it is, well would be - cute if I could do this penultimate review.


and you have ANOTHER window that offers you the SAME options! Yes asme options, but uit wouldn't be as clear, uncluttered, it wouldn't be of the moment in reviewing THAT which I had just captured.

Subtle? And I don't know if you are missing anything, but if it worked it would be as handy - for me - as a claw hammer. Subtle? Your word. Doing the same thing and making life easy - yes I do like an easy life - and I do appreciate your approach and that I understand . .I understood that some 3 hours back - hah!

I'm not trying to tell you WHAT to do I'm trying to show you another way to do the SAME thing! Yes, it IS the same thing, BUT it isn't as convienient as that which it would be if I/we could do the deleting and renaming AT the point at which I'd just done the capturing, that is at and in the window in question. This is a prior option BEFORE getting to the master Capture Window. Bob, this is very simple .. having this option would make my life easier . .apparently not - huh! :)

I'm sticking out for it being made available.

Grazie

G-

I was scratching things out from memory, on an Ipaq at that, so i was being pretty brief.

I don't have anything to capture here at home but I'll throw in a tape when I get to work.

The options are there so there must be an instance when they can be used. I assume.

When I capture, Vegas makes clip1, clip2, etc and then applies the names at the point where you see the dialog you're talking about. At this point I assume they're locked and you can't rename them. Seems dumb so maybe I'm missing something.

Of course you can delete them after the fact from within vidcap or from the media pool. But you know that and you want to be able to delete and rename at the end of the capture session.

I can try it out in an hour. I also have had reason to delete at the stage you're at. I can't remember if I've actually done it though.

Rob

Hi Robbo!

I name my clips in AdvVidCap - it's great for this - esp for a messy editor, with "attitude" ! HAHuh!

Anyways, I just did some final remndering of a piece, set to some music, and don't it all come worthwhile when that final piece comes together? I'm just saying that when editing is a pleasure . . it is a real pleaseure. Vegas? - You are the best!

Graie

G-

I hope you aren't taking my responses as in any way arguing with you. It was late at night and I was lying in bed scratching out a response on my Ipaq. That's just how much I care.

I am well aware of the dialog you're talking about. Well aware of the rename and delete buttons. I wasn't aware that they were greyed out and in fact I thought I had used them in the past, prior to 5.0d (not that I'm blaming 5.0d, but I haven't captured since installing it).

In fact, the way I currently capture (taking in logs through Vegie toolkit-a lifesaver for me!) I occasionally get some clips named clip01, clip02, etc, that are never renamed after capture. These are probably caused by a break in timecode (what-ever!) but the point is that I've had cause to delete them at the stage you mention and it seems to me that maybe I really have done it. So I belive this once worked for me.

It doesn't work now, though, and I can't shake or kick vidcap enough to make it work.

However, the next best thing is to go into your tape listing in vidcap, display thumbnails, and delete or rename the files from there. Again, if they've been added to a Veg file and that file is open then you won't be able to rename them in vidcap until you either close that veg file or remove those file from the pool. Sounds like it would be easier to just close the veg file before you lose your train of thought. (I hate that. I'm always tripping over trains of thought I've left lying around)

Rob Mack

Grazie, we're feelin your pain. Really. So far all we can do is agree that the dialog doesn't deliver on its promise to let you delete or rename clips. And so far we don't know how to change that. All I can do is try to find, and then step you through, a "next best way".

Let's suppose you've capture a hundred or so shots from a tape. The dialog comes up to confirm that you want to save them, giving you the option to add them to the current project. You can't rename or delete the files so you close the dialog. Now you're looking at the main vidcap window. If you don't have the clip explorer part of the window showing then you should do so now. Then, go look at the listing for the tape you just captured. You have a choice of List View, Details, Thumbnails, and Customize. Thumbnail view will give you nearly what you just had in the dialog box. Go select the clips you want to delete and blow 'em away. In this case it's just the same as what the dialog box was providing, except that a few extra seconds have gone by and if you are anything like me you've forgotten what you were doing.

But wait! Suppose you already had a hundred or so clips captured from that tape and you were just adding 4 more new clips. The dialog would have just shown the 4 new clips but the tape listing shows a hundred and four. Damn! It would have been so much easier to delete that one clip out of the four. Now you have to find it amongst the 104 listings.

Well, there's a way to make it easier. In the vidcap clip explorer, switch to Details view. Now go find the "Captured On" column and sort by it. The last four clips will be sorted to the top of the list, (or the bottom). Easy! pick your clip from the top four and delete it.

Okay, it's not exactly what you want but it'll work just fine.

By The Way™ If you customize the view you can add a column for dropped frames. Helpfull if you're getting dropped frames because seeing the column allows you to easily find the clips and recapture them.

Rob Mack

Thank you Rob. Clip Explorer is always there. Yes i can sort each way I ant and get to the last 4 clips captured - D'yer kmow what? I should have stayed in bed today! Or was it yesterday I started this? Anyway ... thank you all so much - I would like the greyed out menu to be lit. Robbo, your, "Well, there's a way to make it easier. " Well yes there is, dear man, . . but brevity and shear lack of will-power makes me hesitate to mention it . .. ;)

Anyway, I done my editing for today .. started at 4:30 am this morning . . it is now 6:45pm in the evening . . and I'm going to relax. Client is due in another 01:15:00,00 . . . time for a tidy up . . and get ready. My partner likes what I've done - The MOST critical person on the Planet . . so I'll set her on him if he says anything negative! . . .

Great day here ... great people here too! Luvs yah . ..

G'night . . . .

Grazie

OK, I think I now fully understand what Grazie is doing and how he's working. I don't have any really better ideas as to how to work this way in Vegas and really don't want to encourage anyone to work this way!
I know it sounds very convenient but from my bitter experience it's not a wiae thing to be doing.
A few months ago I was doing much the same thing, shuttling through a tape looking for clips. And then it happened, tape lost tension and wrapped itself around the guides, deck went into panic mode and after about a minute of it and Vegas having panic attack after panic attack it managed to snap the tape, fortunately without damaging the deck. Thankfully a local dub house was able to splice the tape for a small fee so apart from loosing a lot of sleep and 13 minutes of the clients footage I got out of it pretty lightly.
This may have in part occured due to dodgy tape and big problems with TC on the tape but the issue is that it can happen and you're risking a lot shuttling DV tape backwards and forwards. It's very fragile stuff and needs to be handled very carefully.
I'd strongly suggest to anyone thats got a lot of footage that you go through regularly to dump it, in one pass, onto hard drives and then do whatever appeals to you from there.
Alternatively copy it to the large format tapes in DVCAM with restriped TC, but even then you're putting hours on heads and still risking damage to the deck. Once your footage is on a hard drive you can shuttle through it at 20x, what could be more convenient I don't know.

Another way I'd suggest you could work if it's small clips and you cannot afford lots of HDs, is once you've captured the stuff, split it up into clips and burn the AVIs to DVD-ROM, much easier to find stuff, you can write a lot on a DVD and its case.

In case you think mine was a one off experience with the perils of MiniDV tape, well the guy who spliced the tape assures me he does this on a regular basis for people who've had just that happen. It can happen in any deck and with any NLE.

Bob.

Excellent idea Bob. 1 hours tape to hd, scrub it, find and name clips, regions, trimmmer - bosh! Done!

I have some more fiddlies to do tommorrow, this IS the way I shall do it.

GOOD!

+ves:

* Reduce Deck head wear
* Scubbing is faster
* More control on "capture" clips
* Reduce miniDV failure
* Recapture would still work - no issue there
* . . er . . ?

That'll do me! I'm converted.

Funny, when I did ana editing I used to capture whole tapes onto HD. Then when I saw and used the capabilities of DV I thought, "oooo scene detection - neat! I'll have some of that!" - And now I got to "understand" and have been mastering AdvVidCap I completely ignored the "mechanical" issues - hah!

Bob, my gratitude is only greater than my frustration at getting people to understand me today. Thank you Robert . . I have seen the light!

. . . but how come it took you this long to understand me?

Grazie

Leaving scene detection on gives you the same effect and splits the tape into scenes. The capture just runs straight through from beginning to end of tape so it's easy on the transport mechanism.

What you don't get this way is names for the clips but you could do that afterwards if you still had the patience.

I've never had to roll back and forth through tapes but that's just because I get a log handed to me and I just import the log and let it all roll. Veggie toolkit does a fine job of importing the text file for me.

I suppose that the traditional way to do this is to make a window dub onto VHS and then do your logging from there. It is a worry to put your one and only source into a deck and pray it won't be damaged while you shuttle back and forth. And this gets you back around to doing a single pass capture (with scene detection on or off, doesn't matter all that much) and then naming the clips afterwards.

Pick your workflow.

Rob Mack