Slightly OT:
Out of curiosity, I went to the Avid site to read the forum thread and noticed it was locked down so no additional posting could be made. It has never ceased to amaze me how little freedom of speech there is on the Avid and Pinnacle forums. I remember way back when I owned a Pinnacle product that postings would regularly be deleted by the moderators just because they were slightly critical of the product. Of course, it was considered OK to slam the competition.

I think we are very fortunate to have an open forum where we can discuss our own, as well as competitive products, without being censored. I feel this has resulted in an atmosphere of mutual respect and a high degree of professionalism.

I'm glad that so far these Sony forums still allow for freedom of speech in the threads. If we wanted to bash Vegas because of something it did that was stupid, we could get other peoples views on the subject.

Talking about other companies locking down threads, reminds me of a post I once placed on the iStockPhoto forums. They were constantly offering these "special" deals on hardware that they had "worked hard" to bring to the users. Deals that were consistently 5-20% more expensive than just buying it from Newegg.com.

So, I asked in the forums (addressed to the people in charge), why if it was so special could I get nearly all these deals over at Newegg.com for cheaper. They locked down the thread with a post saying that they work hard to bring these deals to the users and that it was "uncool" to suggest otherwise. And to make matters worse they deleted parts of my text in a way that made me sound silly in whatever I was alluding to.

I look at it like a thread over here asking why would I want to buy the retail copy of Vegas from the store when I can get it from B&H for $100 less. Except, I guess that actually Sony is making money either way.

But still the communist mentality of killing news that might be embarasing or cause distrust is "not cool" in my opinion.

Did I just go off on a rant? I think I did maybe. Sorry.

For the individual comparing Liquid and Vegas.

It reminds me of an old saying.

He doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

"It has never ceased to amaze me how little freedom of speech there is on the Avid and Pinnacle forums. "
===========================================================
The Pinnacle forums are not actually so bad, But the avid forums (especially liquid) are just plain silly. I can't tell you how many times I have had warnings, 30 day suspensions, my posts being moderated...etc. The rules are absolutely stupid... things like "No speculating of any kind with Avid or Avid products"... just crazy things.
And the board is HEAVILY moderated.... seeing 2 or 3 locked posts on the first page is is hardly odd on that site... they shut you down pretty fast if you say anything too negative about Liquid. I remember a short time ago disagreeing with one of the moderators over a power supply issue for a computer.... I got a 30 day suspension for it. One of the FIRST things I noticed when I bought into Vegas... the board over here is an absolute joy compared to Avid!!!

Liquid is being shifted from Avid back over to the Pinnacle devision and the forum board will as well... it will be interesting to see if the moderators get told to back off a little

Deusx,

You don't really sound any different than the people who rag on Vegas when you criticize FCP or Avid.

Because somebody uses something different than you, they must all be brainwashed lemmings. I guess in your perfect world, everyone would edit on Vegas and you could sleep comfortably?

There are a few folks in this forum that don't care what someone else uses or what comments others make about one NLE or another. But others, like you, need to get outside for some fresh air and stop taking the competition so personally.

I don't really care what somebody else uses.

I just know from my own experience, and by working with other people using all of the above mentioned NLEs, that FCP is nothing more than just another NLE, and that AVID's xpress line is laughable.

They both also need an entire suite of other products, just to match what Vegas can do on audio side, by itself. These are facts, nothing more, nothing less.

Seems to me you are taking it personally, because I said FCP could be bundled for free with any hardware purchase. Well, truth sometimes hurts. And apple is basically doing that already, giving it away for free, because when you consider all of the addons ( or suite/studio as they like to call it ) FCP needs to be usable, and the cost of the whole suite, FCP is basically given away for free, like a razer, then they charge for blades.

My favorite feature of Vegas is that the darn thing doesn't stop playing the timeline whenever you change a parameter. It just frustrates the heck out of me in Premiere and Media Composer when you go to change anything and playback comes to a screeching halt. I assume that FCP exhibits the same behavior.

Realtime tweaking, what a concept!

John

Sony needs to get the message out that Vegas is simply faster to work with.

That is something specific that video editors can relate to.

Not one.of.a.kind or whatever their forgettable slogan is in the current ads.

[comparing different NLEs] If the output quality is the same (which it is in the digital realm)

Oh, you mean like a digital picture fade will look the same in every NLE?

And an audio fade will presumably sound the same in every NLE/DAW too. Because it is all in the digital realm.

And all these other composites, etc., they will all look the same in different NLEs, because it is all in the digital realm.

Right?

Too bad for my wallet I didn't know that before I spent so much money on getting better transition tools, plug-ins, and compositing software, when seeing as I'm working in the digital realm, it doesn't make any difference.

And all the hours I spent on jumping through hoops to cut my 10-bit footage in Vegas, before finally taking a deep breath (with a sigh) and getting FCP which supports this out of the box. I can't understand how come the result looks so different, when it's all in the digital realm.

Strange also how editing even 8-bit footage in a high-bit capable NLE can start producing higher quality output as soon as you leave the straight cuts behind. I must have overlooked something there, because it is all digital after all...

Btw, if it's all 0s and 1s, how come everything in video isn't all totally black or totally white? It's gotta be either 0 or 1 in the digital realm, right?

<DRIP OFF>

Don't get me wrong, I love Vegas for its DAW video-editing paradigm. It really works well, and I think many others will follow as soon as they can leave their old thinking on the cutting room floor to be swept up by the overnight cleanup crew.

But I want my high bit, and I know I'm not alone. Hopefully we'll all have V8s under the hood again soon (and hopefully it's not a September announcement for 2008 delivery...).

Avid will probably drop the price of their Media Composter to below $2,500 by stripping out the Script Sync feature (which is incredibly cool and useful for many).

I just say whatever you like to edit with, that's all that matters. Not what someone else is using.

"My favorite feature of Vegas is that the darn thing doesn't stop playing the timeline whenever you change a parameter. "
==============================================================
Funny you mention that, because I said the same thing on the Avid board (Liquid stops too). We were making suggestions as to how to improve on Liquid and I stated this because it drives me crazy as well. Of course I was boo'ed off the stage... not because it was a bad idea, but because Vegas DOESN'T do this and liquid does.

"not because it was a bad idea, but because Vegas DOESN'T do this and liquid does.

I can't think of a single situation where I'd want an NLE to stop what its doing just because I wanted to adjust a parameter. That's just nuts.

That's just nuts.

John I'd multiply that in Real Time by: 7.5 x 255 x 235 x -9.0 (Vol dB) x 14% (Right) x 67.9% (Opacity level) x 206.1 (CC Angle) x 0.811 (Magnitude)

. . . or by ANY other real time adjust I/we use.

But It's good to have the option though, John? It's good to have the "Stop" command - yeah? You'd agree to that? Yeah? He's got a point there.

No, I don't want the STOP command removed from Vegas.

Grazie

"No, I don't want the STOP command removed from Vegas."
=====================================================
Maybe I'm reading your response wrong... but this has little to do with a STOP command. We are PRAISING the fact that Vegas does not stop its playback while you do other things. Liquid can not do this. The second you try and do something... ANYTHING while playback is going... it stops.

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the fact that while the Vegas scrubber playing back on the left side of the timeline, I can be adding a dissolve (or similar) to the right side without affecting playback

"...I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the fact that while the Vegas scrubber playing back on the left side of the timeline, I can be adding a dissolve (or similar) to the right side without affecting playback...

Ditto. Not to mention the all the audio tweaks you can make and have the video still going with the audio updating itself as you fiddle with it.

"It has never ceased to amaze me how little freedom of speech there is on the Avid and Pinnacle forums."
=======================================================

Too funny.
Yet another locked thread on the Avid boards. This one has to do with Vgeas 8 (64bit)

http://www.avid.com/exchange/forums/thread/223766.aspx

I like their catchy slogan (see bottom of thread):

Avid Video Exchange - Up Yours!

BlinkyBlinkyBlinky . . I was, perchance, making an ironic "pass"?

Grazie

"BlinkyBlinkyBlinky . . I was, perchance, making an ironic "pass"?"
=====================================================
well not at me I hope... I'm married! :)