Ain't got no mixing smarts.

theron3 wrote on 7/16/2001, 10:30 PM

Hey,
I've a thin grasp of mixing audio(been doing it for years and I still suck). I have no grasp of how to apply my limited knowlege to the Vegas layout.
How do the faders in the bus mixer differ from the faders in the track itself? Should I assign a bus for each track? When and how do effects(from Vegas, when I find them,) affect the level of the track? Is there a master bus? Why am I clipping on the bus signal and not on the record input.
I know this is a lot to be asking but, I hope that a collection of some will be able to answer all.
I plead darkness and hope to be enlightened with the "basic" and "Vegas specific" aspects of mixing.
Please, shine your light.
with all do thanks,
Theron.

Comments

RobSoul wrote on 7/17/2001, 5:20 PM

I find it simplest to break down the mix into individual components and send each to it's own dedicated Bus.

For example...you could send all lead vocals to Bus A, Background vocals to Bus B, Acoustic Guitars to Bus C, Electric Guitars to Bus D, Bass guitar to Bus E, Drum kit to Bus F, and Percussion to Bus G.

Doing it this way makes it easier to make your bigger mixing adjustments - for example if the background vocals are too loud just lower Bus B instead of lowering the level of each background vocal track. It also saves on processing juice since you can apply effects to entire groups when appropriate - for example if you're using the same reverb on all the background vocals you can leave the individual tracks dry and just insert one reverb on that bus. Know what I mean?

Rob

theron3 wrote on 7/18/2001, 12:00 AM

instinctively, I have done just that. What about the bus level as aposed to the track fader level? Which one should I pay attention to in the mix?

RobSoul wrote on 7/18/2001, 1:15 AM

Depends on what you want to adjust. If the high vocal harmony is too loud, adjust it's track level. If all the vocal harmonies are too loud, adjust the bus level.

To get an idea of the overall balance of your mix, put in a your favorite music CD and A/B that mix with yours.

Rob

Tonehenge wrote on 7/18/2001, 11:35 AM

The trick is to understand the gain stage...

The slider in each track is input gain
next up is the serial processing, in whatever order they are arranged
The final controller (if you activate it)is the volume envelope... unless of course, you assign to a buss. For some reason, multiple buss outputs really bog down Vegas. My advice is to use them sparingly...only on tracks that need to be adjusted together..(drums, background vocals)
Use panning, eq, compression, and reverb to help things "sit" in the mix. Simply adjusting gain just changes the way components in the mix are masked due to sources trying to compete for space in similar frequencies...

theron3 wrote on 7/24/2001, 11:30 PM

So, I've scourded the manual on the subject and I can't get a feel for how it works in the Vegas set up. Is there a Master fader for the whole mix? Should I be treating the track faders ust like channel faders and only use the buss faders for groups? How do I know if the track fders are clipping? Plain and simple, I need infintile advice.
thanks for all the input so far.
Theron.

stakeoutstudios wrote on 7/28/2001, 5:33 AM

hmmm... if I give you a run through of how I'd approach drumkit recording that might help - you can apply it to many things!

first of all, LABEL EVERYTHING! I typically have

kick drum (AKG D12)buss 1
Snare Drum Top (Shure Beta 57)buss 2
Snare Drum Bottom (Shure SM57)buss 3
Hihat (AKG C1000)buss 4
Left overhead (RODE NTK Valve)buss 5
Right Overhead (RODE NTK Valve)buss 6
Small Tom (SM57)split panned between buss 7/8
Medium Tom (SM57)split panned between buss 7/8
Large Tom (SM57)split panned between buss 7/8
Larger Tom (SM57)split panned between buss 7/8

the mics are what I've got... so your setup may vary.
If you haven't got any condenser mics, get some. (for overheads, vox, guitar amps etc.)

Assuming you have an eight buss desk... and an eight input soundcard. if you route the corresponing buss numbers to inputs on the soundcard.

Setup tracks in Vegas, label them according to the mixing desk busses.

Setup busses in Vegas. For the drums, use four busses. Overheads, Kick, Snare, Toms. Put a phase reverse plugin on the underside snare channel in vegas. Alternatively, if you don't have one, reverse wiring on pins 2 and three on one side of an XLR cable and use that cable *only* for the underside of the snare.

Add a noisegate, EQ, Compressor and limiter to each of the busses (preferably Timeworks Mastering Compresser with the threshold set to 0 so it doesn't squash anything yet, just projects from clipping on the busses)

make sure everything is routed right, and record some drums.

Set up a reverb aux by putting a reverb plugin on one of the busses. In the plugin, change the setting to 100% wet signal. Now click on the panning thing and you'll see a drop down menu. Select the buss the reverb is on. You can apply as much reverb as you want to any channel in vegas non-destructively with only one reverb plugin now.

Record the drums. Now, the mixing is up to your ears.

in terms of guidance, swith on compressors, (vegas stock compressor, on the channels) with the bog standard 6:1 ratio. it's good like that funnily enough, fine tune it later.. this is good enough for now. Do this on kick, snare and overheads.

On the busses, bring up the overheads first, pan them left and right! if they're good mics in a good room, they should need little EQ. if they're s%$^"£t mikes then to may want to shelve off all the bass leaving only treble.

Bring in the kick drum. recommended EQ nothes vary, but either 5.1 or 2.6 is a good bet for the clicky attacky part of the drum, around there anyway. then the bass boost depends on the size of the kick drum mostly. try between 40 and 80hz.

Snare drum. Mix over and under mikes according to taste. add some 10khz or treble area (does vary)and if it needs more fatness (buy a new mike) you can boost around 320hz.

Bring the tom mikes up and GATE THEM. gate them until only when the toms play they cut through. The vegas noise gate is superb for this. you may need to extend the release on the gate until you can hear the full sustain of the drum.

And before you ask, yes, I am a drummer as well :oP

Hope this helps. If you want a guide like this for any other instrument, let me know. The most important thing to remember is to get the sound while you are tracking.

Get a good mike (Rode NTK or if that's out of the price range, an NT1000)

.. and about guitar sounds... multiple microphones is the secret. You can bounce them down on the desk and record them to one channel... but multiple mikes are where the fatness comes from.

hope this helps, even if not very coherant... I'm most hung over.

Jason

theron3 wrote on 7/28/2001, 10:35 PM

Yeah, that's the stuff! thanks for your time, Jason. I'm mostly having a problem getting the vocal and git tracks to not compete for the spotlight. I've read a lot about compression and how to apply it. The timeworks safegard against clipping I can definitly use. Where is it? Can I just use a properly set noise gate at the start of the buss chain to achieve the same. And I still have an optical problem with the track faders and busses. I've a tendancy to buss everything just so it is in a more conventional lay out and I can see what is clipping. I must invest in better speakers(Just reluctant to starve for a weak and get a set of solid monitors). I've been working with headphones and they just don't translate accuratly to my speakers or anywhere else.
Thanks again for your knowlege and interest. Man, do I have some time to log before I get a feel for this. I just hope I'm recording decent enough signals to give myself a chance a working with something that is not already defiled when I'm mixing.
And yes, I know that multi mics are where it is at when recording git tracks. The variety of tone between mic choice and placement is enough to make a day disapear without recording a lick.
Gratefully, Theron
P.S. one other thing. How do I make a setting for a plug-in stick. I could swear, I set someting like compression up(solo the track to hear what I'm doing and tweak the settings or just use a pre-set) and when I play back or come back to it the next day I have to start all over. I always save, save,save! How can I know what I set up is taking place? Do I need an "ear upgrade?".