Amount of disc space taken by DVD authoring

Peter wrote on 3/3/2009, 12:40 AM

I have a problem in regards to DVD software and its menu. It does take up quite a lot of space on a disc I have found and a film I am editing, if I want to keep it single-lawyered, will take up about 4.3 GB in itself, as its an hour and a half long. Now I don't want to compresss it (as it affects the sound badly) and using an older system with an earlier cut went without menus. I don't mind doing this again to avoid compression. I mean I can go Dual layered but that is expensive in disc-buying.

Essentially on earlier test - AMOUNT GONE TO DISC FOR 40 MINS OF FOOTAGE- AROUND 2.4 GB

AMOUNT IN ACTUAL PROGRAM 1,838,584 KB AVI AND 450 MB WAV SO THE AUTHORING TAKES UP A LOT ON DISC SO HAS TO BE CUT DOWN TO BASIC TO GET ALL THE FILM ON DISC WITHOUT GOING DUAL-LAYERED.

So my first question is, is there any way to cut down the dvd authoring menu to be incredibly basic, so it does not take up too much disc space?

Second question is, is there a way to process the film direct but avoid having a menu on DVD authoring?

Finally, I'm wondering if you can put basic chapter markings through vegas and not dvd authoring.

Anyway, any help would be appreciated.

Comments

Steve Grisetti wrote on 3/3/2009, 5:26 AM

It's certainly available to create a DVD with no menu -- though a menu takes an almost insignificant amount of space on a disc.

A wiser move, if you're trying to avoid losing video quality, is to keep your project short or divide it into two discs. As a general rule, a single-layer DVD can hold about 60-70 minutes of video at full quality. After that, you'll need to increase the compression and reduce the quality to squeeze more on.

The alternative, as you know, is to use a dual-layer disc.

Peter wrote on 3/3/2009, 6:22 AM

I have to say I am finding it all a bit confusing. my first cut of this project, which is about five minutes longer, using magix, fitted on a single-sided disc with quality i was happy with. But i'll see how I got when i start to burn. I just find it odd. the 0.4 GB of memory added to disc from the render to the dvd authoring, which i find confusing and worrying.

I am wondering if anyone knows the reason why this would be the case.

mterrien wrote on 3/3/2009, 8:17 AM

I have a post here with the same concerns. No one seems to know why the newer versions of Vegas and DVDA allow a lot less movie to be burned to a single disc. With older versions I was able to burn a 1-1/2 hour movie using the best settings. That no longer works and there doesn't seem to be an explaination. I don't know why Sony would make the software produce less.

bhurst wrote on 3/3/2009, 8:58 AM

Are you sure you are using the same standard to determine the size of the project?

Sometime software uses ...

1,000,000,000 bytes = 1 GB

while others use ...

1,024,000,000 bytes = 1 GB

You can see both measures if you right-click a file or folder in Windows Explorer and select Properties. It shows both GBs (1024 method) and actual bytes (1000 method).

For example: 2.56 GB (2,758,731,800 bytes)

B

Peter wrote on 3/3/2009, 9:20 AM

I can see your point, have checked it on my computer, which does that but 0.4GB covers a lot more than that loss, and more than you would expect to lose in the transfer, even with menus. It just feels like where's it all gone. The output from the sony vegas suite is in line for me to get it all on one singl-layered disc but having a mysterious add-on of data feels wrong.

If dual-layered discs were cheaper I wouldn't care so much. The entire thing feels very frustrating after all the time and effort put into the project, especially as I can't work out why its happeening.

bhurst wrote on 3/3/2009, 9:40 AM

I suspect your math is flawed.

You are saying that a burned disc takes 0.4 GB more space than the "prepared" files on the hard drive ... that would be 400 MB more!

I just burned a disc and the difference between the prepared files on the hard drive (3.91 GB) and the size on the disc (3.92 GB) is 0.01 GB ... that would be 10 MB.

I think 10 MB is a reasonable amount of space for the lead-in/lead-out (disc formatting).

B

TOG62 wrote on 3/3/2009, 10:34 AM

1,024,000,000 bytes = 1 GB

Perhaps I'm being pedantic but I believe that 1GB is actually 1024 cubed bytes, i.e.
1,073,741,824.

Mike

Peter wrote on 3/3/2009, 10:38 AM

yeah, that 10 mb would be a reasnable amount.

But the amount I had, of 400mb was what occurred last month when I burned something. If it was only ten mb, I would be very happy. because it was so much more was the reason i was getting a little concerned. It seemed a little off. the space amounts quoted were what i recorded at the time, which felt off.

hopefully it will be less of a problem next time. but that was a reason why I brought it up, in the difference between what you export from vegas and the space taken once it goes through DVD authoring. because 4000MB feels very excessive to me for authoring and a simple menu.

Peter wrote on 3/3/2009, 11:04 AM

actually I just did recheck my numbers there and found a mistake in the wav sound being bigger than I figured in to start, making up the gap. apologies about that. (one was kb, one mb and it was an error based on the zeros which i missed)

but it still is a concern as it seems larger than this is the editing to disc compression doesn't help but a project together. to compare, from a discs at hand, from sony vegas a 41:03 run-time had a 2.2gb disc run (2,366,113,792 BYTES MEMORY) while a magix software i have used had a 44.08 RUN TIME- 1.91 GB 2,060843,008 BYTES MEMORY)

That loss of available data is annoying. i don't know what i gain yet in quality, if the compression from a double layer to single following burn will help much. all I know is this compression rate is difficult and wonder if there is a way to change it a little at sony while rendering, such as make render DV pal over ntsc and wonder if that might make some difference. anyone have any ideas if this might be a possible solution?

bhurst wrote on 3/3/2009, 11:07 AM

Just to be clear ...

Are you comparing the size of the AUDIO_TS/VIDEO_TS folders on your hard drive (before burning) to the size of the burned disc.

OR ... are you comparing the size of the files that came out of Vegas (the content you link to in DVDA) to the size of the burned disc.

If it is the latter, there are an awful lots of things that could affect that difference. Most likely it would be selecting a higher bit rate for the DVDA output than that of the original files, or maybe changing for constant bit rate in the Vegas files to variable bit rate for the DVD image.

B

bhurst wrote on 3/3/2009, 11:08 AM

Mike said ... Perhaps I'm being pedantic but I believe that 1GB is actually 1024 cubed bytes, i.e. 1,073,741,824.

Yeah ... you are probably right ... sorry.

And you are being only slightly pedantic :-)

B

Peter wrote on 3/3/2009, 1:19 PM

coming out of vegas to burned disc.

to be honest I'm kinda ready just to dual layer it. worked out my run time, the average transfer rate on sony and will never make it with the single layer through sony. am going to see what the compression is like for single layer, if its acceptable (after all, sa sony has higher rate it might lead to better quality and compressed version being similar to what i already had)

thanks for the information. i hope i wasn't too vague. but this sony technology is still new to me and am still in the make mistakes to see how it exactly works stage.

bhurst wrote on 3/4/2009, 12:04 AM

Honestly ... if it were me ... I would go into the Project Properties (File > Properties) and set the Video Bit Rate to about 6.000 Mbps. That should give you about 90 minutes on the disc, and I really doubt you will notice a drop in video quality unless your video is "high-action." Commercial DVDs with variable bit rates often drop much lower than this in static scenes.

I am sitting here watch The Mummy on my PC, and it's bitrate is often below 6Mbps.

And, changing the video bit rate should not affect the audio quality at all. It's bit rate is set separately. DVDA's standard audio bit rates (192kbps for AC3 stereo and 448kbps for AC3 surround) are the same as commercial DVDs. If you choose to use PCM audio on the DVD, it will take up more space.

B

Peter wrote on 3/4/2009, 10:40 AM

in project properties, where would you actually change this rate? On video I've found the aspect ratio templates, audio has some templates, rules has bits on measures and beats (such as beats per minutes) I can't find a video bit rate anywhere.

any help you could give me on this would be very helpful.

Steve Grisetti wrote on 3/4/2009, 11:11 AM

This setting can be found under the File menu, in Optimize DVD.

TOG62 wrote on 3/4/2009, 11:13 AM

You do it in Architect.

File | Optimise DVD
Click clip on left
Click Video heading on right
Change Recompress from No to Yes
Change use default bitrate from Yes to No
Set bitrate to suit.

Alternatively you can just click on Fit to Disc.

Mike

bhurst wrote on 3/4/2009, 11:32 AM

Maybe we are using difference versions of Architect. I have 5.0, and you can set the bit rate for the whole project in the Project Properties dialog.

From other comments, it sounds like you can also set bit rate at the individual file level.

Listen to the other guys. They surely know more than me.

B

Peter wrote on 3/6/2009, 9:05 AM

Just a quick thank you to all who have offered advice on this thread. it is very well appreciated. Thanks to all your help, I think I have an idea what i need to do next with my film.