Analog to Digital Converson Advise

CraftyCre8tor wrote on 11/28/2006, 6:17 PM

Thank goodness for this forum because I'm living a nightmare and am about to go crazy.

First of all, I don't do this professionally so my money is personal money, not business money that can be justified by increased business to offset the cost. This is a one time use.

It all started when my son informed me that it was time that I take him to the DMV to get his Learner's permit. How could 16 years pass so quickly? So I thought that I'd watch his baby videos to make me even more depressed. Then I thought that I'd start a project to convert all of the tapes (about 50 in all) to DVD. A few years ago, I bought a Sony digital mini DV camcorder with a pass through and it's quite easy to convert analog to digital. I got my 16 year old Sony Video 8 (analog) Handycam down from the closet and popped in a High 8 tape only to discover that the camcorder didn't work. I talked to someone at a video repair shop and she said that the old camcorders have many capacitors and that they eventually leak. It not only doesn't pay to have it fixed but never buy a used one on Ebay because one of the capacitors will eventually leak.

Okay, so now I'm shopping for a new camcorder that plays the old 8 mm cassettes. Oh yes, I forgot. My old camcorder had the RCA video connections (Red, Yellow, White). None of the new hi 8 camcorders have the Red, Yellow, White but after many hours I found an open box one that did. Yipee! I brought it home, popped in a tape and hit play. I couldn't see anything. Tried another 4 tapes and knew something was wrong. Called Sony and talked to someone who barely spoke English. Turns out the camcorder only plays digital video 8, not analog. Back to Best Buy to return.

Best Buy does have another model that plays analog tapes but it only has the RCA pin output (the other end of the red, yellow, white cable). That means that I can't use my 2 year old camcorder with the pass through because it doesn't have the connections to accept the red, yellow, white end. Now I'm faced with buying a new camcorder and a stand alone converter. There seems to be only one camcorder left on the market to buy and it's the Sony CCD-TRV138.

Best Buy told me to buy the Dazzle analog digital converter. At $50 it's affordable but I was told by Pinnacle that I need to install the software that comes with it. The software is a limited version of Movie Studio 10. But wait...the reason I switched to Vegas was because Movie Studio was such a piece of crap and kept crashing my laptop.
So if anyone has used Dazzle and it works good, please let me know.

After reading past posts, people highly recommended the Canopus ADVC 110. But that's over $200 and when you add the cost of the camcorder I have to buy, I'm spending almost $400. Then there's the Canopus ADVC 55. Can't see what the difference is between the two but even that's $175.

I use my laptop for all my editing.
No one I know has a camcorder that will play my tapes so...
Am I stuck with a $400 plus project?
Can I/should I use the Dazzle?
Does anyone have any other suggestions?

I can't think of a better bunch of people to ask.

Thanks!

Comments

Former user wrote on 11/28/2006, 6:29 PM

Then what's the point of buying anything if the capacitor will eventually leak. (sarcasm off)

Take your camera to another repair place, (one that actually wants the business) and get another estimate.

The camera can be repaired, you just have to decide if it is worth the cost.

Dave T2

wwaag wrote on 11/28/2006, 7:20 PM

A few years ago, I did exactly what you're contemplating. IMO, rather than buying a camcorder to "play" your tapes and an A/D converter such as the ADVC-110 (an excellent device--I have the ADVC-100) to put it into a digital format (DV), I would recommend you find a Digital-8 device with firewire so that the A/D conversion is done within the device itself. I bought the Sony GV-D200, a stand-alone Digital 8 (DV) deck that plays both the older 8mm and Hi8 formats. It converts them to DV and through firewire you can import to your computer or a DVD recorder if all you want to do is simply make a copy. At the time, it was about $550 new. Alternatively, I'm sure you can also find a used Digital 8 camcorder that does the same thing on Ebay-- a bit risky, but you're only going to use it to digitize your collection. Just make sure the model will play back the older 8/Hi8 tapes and that it has firewire. Will probably take some research on your part. Good luck.

wwaag

goshep wrote on 11/28/2006, 8:07 PM

Check out this model:
(sorry, I'm still link illiterate)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-Handycam-DCR-TRV120_W0QQitemZ110061014532QQihZ001QQcategoryZ48512QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I have this model and have used it for hours and hours of 8mm and Digital8 transfer.

It doubles as a pretty decent camcorder for B-days, etc. too.

lman wrote on 11/28/2006, 8:07 PM

I'm also in the process of converting old analog 8mm tapes to digital, and purchased Vegas 7 to edit the digital files. Like you, I have an older Handycam that wouldn't work when I pulled it out of the closet. Found out that it would cost $175 just to have a repair person look at it. (most probable cause of failure: leaking caps.. I was told they have to be manually replaced, which can easily take 2+ hours). Instead of getting it fixed, I threw it away, shopped around, and got lucky to find a Sony TVR328 at Office Max for $100 (manager's special). I also purchased the Dazzle DVC80 with Pinnacle Studio 9 to do the conversion. Everything works except one problem: the digital recording quality is terrible. I never could figure out which was the best setting to use: BEST or CUSTOM codec (YUV2, Intel Indeo R3.2, Indeo video 5.10, PCLEPIM1, or PICVideo MJPEG... I think these are the preinstalled codecs from Pinnacle, the "list all codecs' button doesn't work!). Additionally, I never could get the S video connection to work.

I also have a WinTV-PVR-250 installed on my computer, and connected both an S video cable and audio cable to its input jacks, and successfully recorded to MPEG2 at 12.0 MBits/sec using the WinTV2000 PVR application. Quality is much better than the Dazzle/Pinnacle thing. Problem is you end up with 4gig files that are a pain to edit. Additionally, I would still like to see better quality.

I would appreciate any ideas also on how to get better quality digital.

farss wrote on 11/28/2006, 8:09 PM

Avoid anything Dazzle, trust me, unless they've dramatically improved those units they are a DISASTER.

A D8 camera or deck is the way to go. I've transferred 100s of hours of 8, Hi8 and D8 using my TRV320, works a treat for 8, Hi8 and as a A->D converter for VHS.
Failing that the GDY800 is a good but relatively expensive little deck.
For analogue video such as 8 or Hi8 you really do get a benefit from time base correction, this you get with the D8 decks and cameras. To get that in a converter you need the ADVC 300 which is pretty pricey but very capable.

Bob.

goshep wrote on 11/28/2006, 8:16 PM

lman,

It sounds like you are making the same mistake I made three years ago when I first started transferring/editing. Those "el cheapo" capture devices compress the heck out of your video and then VV/DVDA compress it again for render to DVD. The best option is a Canopus ADVC 100 or similar. Second to that (for a one time operation) I would recommend a Digital8/8mm camcorder with firewire out. This can be captured directly to Vegas as uncompressed video. It can also be used as a poor man's TiVo. Connect video out from your VCR and Firewire out to Vegas and voila, you are capturing your favorite program digitally. Alas, I digress.

farss, I thought the 100 featured TBC as well? Would've purchased one myself were it not for the generosity of a friend. All hail Digital8 pass-thru!

CraftyCre8tor wrote on 11/28/2006, 9:44 PM

Thanks to everyone for your great advise!

I think I would like to go with the Sony GV-D200 but the cost is well over $500.

Does anyone know where I can pick up a used one?
Has anyone ever seen them on Ebay or is there a better website I can try?

wwaag wrote on 11/29/2006, 8:37 AM

I don't think that you would regret your purchase of the GV-D200. I also routinely use the device for backup of all my DV projects including more recent tapes from my DV camcorder. It certainly is a lot easier to work with than using a camcorder.

After your inquiry, I did a few searches and found the device is still available (I bought mine over 4 years ago). Seems like the going price is still around $500. None were available on Ebay except for a new one for over $600 on an Ebay store. You might also consider purchase specifically for your project and then sell on Ebay once you're completed if you feel you would have no further need of it. I've seen a lot of people do this with high-end film scanners. Again, good luck.

wwaag

jasman wrote on 11/29/2006, 1:26 PM

I am also transferring a bunch of Hi8 tapes to DV via firewire out. I found a used (but immaculate, and barely used) Sony TRV720 on eBay for ~$200. The quality of the DV conversion is spectacular. I have compared a transfer of the same tape to a lesser Sony Digital 8 camcorder that I borrowed (sorry don't remember the model) and it looks noticably better.

I think the going rate for used TRV720s is about $300-400 on eBay. That's my recommendation. You'll also then have a "decent" digital 8 camcorder if that's any plus.

farss wrote on 11/29/2006, 2:00 PM

No TBC in the ADVC 100 or 110, only the 300 and above.

To the best of my knowledge Sony have ceased production of all D8 product. This is a great shame. If it hadn't been for the likes of Panasonic and JVC, D8 (aka DVC) would have been what MiniDV is today.

DelCallo wrote on 12/24/2006, 2:51 AM

Don't know if you have figured this out yet, but, if not, and, if you are willing to invest the time, then, I recommend dubbing the hi8 or 8mm analog tapes to some digital video cam - could be minidv, Digital8, whatever. You don't need pass through if you are willing to spend the time to dub the tapes to a digital device. I have the Dazzle DVC90. It works, but, leaves sporadic, but very predictable frames with artifacts that, for me, ruin the conversion. I have yet to find out if the problem is inherent to the DVC90 or some interaction problem between the DVC90 and my system.

For casual video work, the DVC90 as I have described would probably be fine - and a very inexpensive solution to your problem - you still need something on which to play your analog 8mm tapes, though.

If you are determined and willing to spend the time, by any DV cam that will accept SVideo input (and composite analog audio input) and dub the 8mm tapes to that cam. You can do them 1/2 tape at a time if your analog tapes are 2hrs long. Take the dubbed footage and import it onto your computer, and you are ready to edit.

An older Sony Digi8 cam would be perfect for this purpose, and, depending on which model you buy, would work as a back up cam as well.

I own a Sony TRV103 Digi8 cam. It doesn't have pass through (well, it will pass from computer to analog destination deck, but, not from analog deck to computer). I dub tapes all the time. Then, use the TRV103's firewire port to move the material to my computer. Works fine.

The Hi8 medium was a fine video acquisition system - too bad it was supplanted by digital. I own a couple of really good Hi8 cams and continue to use them.

Good luck to you.

Del

farss wrote on 12/24/2006, 3:08 AM

The Dazzle is well, to be polite, a heap of junk and I speak from experience on that one.

A proper D8 deck or a D8 camcorder rated for Video8 playback is the best approach. Going from the analogue outputs of a Video 8 deck into a DV camcorder or deck is not such a good idea. It will probably work OK however the lack of a TBC in the DV decks / camcorders CAN mean you'll not get back as much as you could from Video 8 or Hi8 tapes.