D'oh!

He's already been to the DVDA forum. I told him to check here because I thought maybe something wasn't going quite right with the AVIs he's creating in Vegas. And because I can't seem to accomplish the task, either. ;-)

See, DVDA apparently does "respect" the alpha channel in AVI files, because one of the themes that comes with DVDA has such an AVI. Drag that AVI (there are four of them, animated arrows) onto a DVDA menu, and the background is "transparent." You don't have to do anything special in DVDA -- no options / preference change, no switch to flip, nothing -- for this to happen. Drag the SF/Sony-created-and-approved AVI on the screen and bam, you got yourself a circle with an arrow in the middle, and the rest of the image transparent.

But it seems no one can figure out how to create an AVI (in Vegas or otherwise) that achieves the same effect. Or if someone can, they're not talking, because this has been brought up on the DVDA forum before, and nothing's been resolved.

I've tried creating such an AVI in Vegas. Added some media, no background, rendered to an uncompressed AVI with the "render alpha channel" box checked and then dragged the AVI onto the Vegas timeline. I couldn't even get that to work right until I recently read one of Grazie's post and realized I had to change the event's Properties (thanks, dude!). Once I did that, the background magically disappeared as I wanted.

But bringing that same AVI into DVDA still has a black background. I've searched every setting, and can't find anything for "hiding" the alpha channel. And, as I said, no switch has to be flipped to use the included AVIs properly. So I can only figure SF/Sony did something with the actual AVI files that I can't figure out...

Here's what I do know. The specs for the "properly transparent" AVIs included with DVDA are as follows:

15 fps -- progressive -- uncompressed. On a Vegas timeline, the background is pure black (tested it with the chroma keyer fx and then removed the fx) until I change the event's alpha channel setting to Straight or above.

I've created my own AVIs with exactly these same settings / properties, but still no luck in DVDA. Can only figure there's still something about SF/Sony's AVIs that I'm not duplicating.

So. That's why the original poster put the question here on the Vegas forum. Cause the questions been asked several times on the DVDA forum, and nothing (as far as I can tell) has been figured out on that end. Unless, as i said, someone's not talking. [grin]

(Sorry for the wordiness...)

Rob

You know what? I had the same problem trying to create an animated clip (a circle of fire with person dancing in center ) I could just lay over another track after rendering but was always stuck with that bl**dy black background. I would have expected this checkerboard thing in background to avoid chroma keying or masking, but couldn't.
I guess it's the way V5 renders...

Otherwise, there MAY be a turnaround:

http://www.videoguys.com/Vegas_Tips/TTS02-06.pdf
(look at the DVDA article)

Maybe improvise from this (even if the example is from text)? : \

What about right-clicking the event, choosing Properties, Media and changing the alpha channel settting? With regards to Vegas, that solved it for me.

Making the alpha channel behaving in DVDA is what's giving me fits.

Good suggestion on the Tips and Tricks newsletter -- I'm a big fan of DVDA2's custom highlighting feature. It solves quite a few of the "How do I do this...?" questions that DVDA users have.

Another work around would also be to simply make the "buttons" as part of a motion background in Vegas. Would be stil be nice to figure out this transparency thing, though.

(Sidenote to jetdv: I think there's a typo in the Volume 2 Issue 6 newsletter. Page 5 has references the "Image Map Overlay" option for DVDA's Hightlight - Style setting. It's "Image Mask Overlay," innit? :)

Rob

... there's hope!
And what do you choose to get this transparency after right-clicking? Premultiplied?

I just used Straight.

Frankly, I don't know what any of them mean - maybe something to do with how Vegas handles "in-between" colors (similar to an image editor's tolerance setting). Better let someone who knows more about alpha channels to answer your question. ;-)

Rob

I tried different things but no success.
You know, all I want is being able to *save* with alpha channel (*checkerboard*) like if I did a text overlay in Photoshop and save with alpha: it would appear with the checkerboard on the back so I'd just have to put it on top track and avoid using Chroma keyer or Masking to have it "stamped" on second track just below...

But, since I'm learning AE right now, I think I'll be able to do it and render there and just have to use it the way I want in Vegas after.
I tried with Green\Blue Chroma Keying and Masking but it always was deceiving...

And, like it seems to be with you and a bunch of us, all these modes in Compositing are not very "intuitive" . ; D

Well, I started up this un resolved thread and appreciate the imput but not awnsers yet. I tried the PDF text link posted above but again to see how text was done but that does not work because its not really animated.

I did find a crude work around with Adobe Photoshop Image ready where I was able to save sequenced PNGs as a single file and it WORKED! Transparentcy and Animation but unfortunaty, DVD Arc leaves aliesd edges around the whole thing so it look too sloppy to use.

I think this is the problem. Even if you split out the animation and have a seprated animated black and white file put into a Mask slot, it looks fine if you dont move anything but for some reason only one of the two Maps animates. Why did they do this?

"Why did they do this?"

I second on that ...

Still images should be a snap.

I bring in PNG images with alpha channels all the time -- Vegas "respects" their transparancy without any further intervention on my part. TGA, also. What format are you using, and are you sure you're saving them correctly? In Paint Shop Pro, I have to choose an Optimize option to ensure that the alpha channel is used. I don't know what steps are needed in PhotoShop, but I could check if no one else posts an answer.

Rob

No problems with Photoshop, I've done it several times.
It's with Vegas that I have this issue with saving animated clips. the alpha will always render as black instead of "nothing" (checkerboard).
Like I said, I'm gonna check with AE and if it works, I'll go from one app to the other.
Needless to say I'd really enjoy avoiding to do that.

I would like to know if Adobe Encore dose that better too. Let us know how it goes, maybe I wll make the switch too! I heard its amazing and they didnt leave out obvious options like Animated buttons with transparantcy like Sony did. Jeez, I think even some cheep $49 stuff I downloaded as trial has this ability.

(Sidenote to jetdv: I think there's a typo in the Volume 2 Issue 6 newsletter. Page 5 has references the "Image Map Overlay" option for DVDA's Hightlight - Style setting. It's "Image Mask Overlay," innit? :)

You are correct.

Oh, confusion here: to me , AE = After Effects.
I meant, animated clips with this bl**dy transparency option we're talking about.
And yes, it's quite frustrating we can't have that in Vegas.
Otherwise, I would NEVER switch my Vegas for anything else... it's just anoying having to use some apps on the side sometimes...

In fact, what I just hope is that Sony is not taking these kind of decisions "just to be different from "x" "... that would be a useless move to me...

And, concerning Adobe Encore, it'll only run on WinXP so if you got Win2K, forget about it.
And I *heard* there's still a few things to fix on this app.

I really like the way DVDA goes and I'd use trunarounds if I was in a situation where I have to.
Quicker than having to learn how to use another program sometimes. But it's a very personal thing; some like to learn a lot of those, some not. I'm in the second team. : )

FuTZ:

I'm still confused about your confusion. :)

Are you still having trouble making an AVI with transparency and then getting that transparency to work in Vegas?

Or are you referring to making that AVI's transparency work in DVDA?

Rob

lol !
Ok...I want to make a transparency (ie rendered one) to use as a simple overlay on another track without having to go thru compositing.
When I save, say, a cutout circle with animated clip inside with a transparent background, it saves with a *black* background, *not* with a checkerboard background so I just would have to put this saved track on top af another one to have a simple overlay as with text. So I have to go thru compositing or masking which gives horrible results since my actual circle is not a straight one cut but surrounded by flames 9ie different "levels" of transparencies into these flames). I tried with green bckground, blue one, one without a color that's in my cutout, with different settings concerning alpha without ever having that *checkerboard* background.

I just can't do that in Vegas. In DVDA, I din't even tried.

Well, since I started this origional post, what I was refering to is Animated Buttons in DVDa with a transparent background. I went to that forum and they told me to come here to Vegas but still no luck:( Someone there said you could make a 32 bit AVI in Vegas with an alpna channel but it still does not work when you try to bring it into DVD Arch.

Futz,
no problem doing what you want. Render as uncompressed AVI with alpa. When you bring that back into Vegas you need to force Vegas to see the alpha data. Check the box in media properties that says Alpha muxed or whatever, you'll soon see what I'm talking about. I've done it many times with no problemo.

Bob.

DVDA buttons as far as I know cannot have transparency but the masks can, that is the trick. You make the mask the button.

Bob.

Bob, see my first note in this thread. DVDA ships with four AVI files with transparency, and DVDA "honors" that transparency right off the bat. Browse to the directory for the Animated theme and drag any of the AVI onto a DVD menu as a graphic . The background is transparent without any futher intervention -- no mask needed for those four AVI's. I just can't figure out how Sony did it.

DVDA also supports the transparency in PNGs and GIFs. I haven't any trouble with those at all.

Rob

. . . and the point you are making, Rob, is? I've been left hanging here? I'm guessing, but are you suggesting that :

1 - As Sony have some formats that honour a transparent channel, with the "four AVI files with transparency" they "know" how to do this for us.

. .and as a result of this :

2 - Sony should be making this feature available to NLE editors all through their products - DVDA<>VEGAS

.. . meaning they - Sony - know about the preservation of the transparency option and why not roll it out through their products.

Is this your way of thinking?

Bob's advice - doing uncompressed - underlines the very "straight" approach I think is at the bottom of all Vegas development, and come to that even back to VideoFactory where I started. And that is, to offer to us editors a platform that is very "open" to use and very versatile in its almost Zen-like qualities. This HAS resulted in Vegas being very adaptable and not focussing on one "way" of doing things - this I like and revel in. For me having a piece of s/w that I can understand - notwithstanding some of the silly annoyances - PLUS the fact that it is also hardware agnostic, makes me stay with this s/w and talk it up through the many contacts I have here in London. BUT! And here is the rub - NOT holding onto the trannie bit of a render is well, silly. Yes Bob uncompressed, I hear you. However, I've sat and read this issue come up time and time again that surely it's about time this was "offered" at least as an option?

I too don't like to make Chroma keying on text stuff just to get back the trannie background - apart from being very time consuming it is also VERY DUMB WORK! . ..

So, I guess it is a balance Sony is making [ I'm real good at mind reading - NOT! ] . . . give 'em uncompressed as THE option to retain trannie and we, Sony, have retained our Zen like approach to NLE activity . . . Ommmmmmmm .. . .. . .

Best regards Chaps!

Grazie

. . oh, thanks for the recognistion .. ;-)