Also, could it be whatever codec was in use? I've seen software replace the MS yuv filter as default with filters that were perhaps kludged to work with current windows video routines, as well as ones that tried to provide vfw/wdm bridges.

FWIW, I've found thru testing &/or examples that Adobe stuff will use windows default codec related files, where Vegas uses it's own - Adobe just doesn't have it's own. If an avi created with whatever codec is opened in one of these apps, that codec is used to decode it - not always the case in Vegas. I know one usually doesn't think of codecs when thinking uncompressed, but it has to be in some format, use some filtering software to capture and playback.

Also FWIW (& not trying to be a smar A__, I'd be impressed with a firewire drive (not array) that could play back true, full frame uncompressed video thru wmplayer 9. perhaps it's not uncompressed, but compressed in something like HUFFYUV which is lossless. And, 3 gig of video at full frame uncompressed would hardly be more then a relatively few frames - not several minutes.

Hmm... curious that ONLY you keep finding "bugs", when you're obviously new to Vegas and others far more expereinced DO NOT expereince them. Just like you said yesterday because YOU couldn't make a event run backwards, instead of learning how, or asking for help, you claim "bug" and here you are again claiming you've found another "bug".

Imagine that.

Lots of people in the forum willing to help you, but if you start every post with claiming something else is a "bug" you'll soon discover nobody takes your seriously. Besides, the only ones that can for sure officially say bug are the SoFo guys once they confirm what someone reports otherwise us mere users should phrase you've discovered a POSSIBLE bug, because more often than not it is something specific to a person's hardware or source files or methods which is causing the problem and that isn't a bug.

I do a lot of 3D work in other apps and export as uncompressed AVI and Vegas handles them just fine. So Vegas can handle uncompressed AVI’s without problems. Perhaps the “bug” is in the way After Effects created the AVI and Vegas is adhering more strictly to the specs. Just because another Adobe app (i.e., Premiere) can read it doesn’t mean it’s not a bug that they share. Are you having problems with uncompressed AVI output from other programs or just After Effects? That will narrow down where the problem is.

And you know... a lot of us brag about how great Vegas is and send potential customers to these forums to see how the community is helping each other do creative things with video instead of having 100’s of posts about how buggy the software is like the Pinnacle and Ulead forums. Then you come alone and post fictitious bug reports and those people come back to all of us and say we are misleading them because they saw post headlines like “another bug! avi error”.

So please be more careful with your subject lines. Perhaps “Can’t use After Effects AVI in Vegas” might have been more appropriate and might have actually attracted someone who is using After Effects and Vegas together to view it and help out. That same person might not have been interested in your “bug report” and might not read it and offer the help you need.

~jr

just curious, johnnyRoy ... with fields or no fields? (frames) D1 or DV?

Ronnie, No fields, (progressive) Full frames (uncompressed) DV. Sometimes 24 bit sometimes 32 bit with an alpha channel.

~jr

I believe weasels and ferrets prefer adobe....

AE 5.5 for windows. 720x480 uncompressed AVI, duration 1 min 30 sec.

To my detractors:

Just because I am the only one that experiences the problem does not mean it's not a bug. Sometimes bugs are intermittent.

Whether or not a firewire drive can play back uncompressed video in real time is irrelevant to the problem. To reiterate, After FX 5.5, Premiere 6, and Windows Media 9 were all able to access the file properly. Only Vegas barfed.

As for my subject lines, I'll call it a bug if I want to. I have no brand loyalty. If a product is good, I use it. If it stinks, I don't use it. Simple as that. So far I have been very impressed with Vegas, but these bugs are really putting a cramp in my style.

Would it be better if I didn't report these problems, and they took longer to fix... or never got fixed? Should we all just blindly accept what software developers do? Quite the contrary, we need to be assertive in order to help improve the product. Sitting back and letting companies rest on their laurels does everyone a disservice.

WF - Did you try out the suggestions I made for your "the print to tape limitation" item you posted here?

Please confirm or otherwise. I take a great interest when I proffer a solution to colleagues on this Forum. If it works, then I can learn from the experience too. If I don't know then I'm . . . . well . . . left in the dark - yes? Not knowing either way. Knowing that what I offer has "helped" will make me more inclined to carry on assisting. And at the same time I can recognise that my time has been well spent with responding - in this case - to yourself.

If I can be of assistance in the future, believe me, I shall pay very close attention to what you request. Hey, in the future you may even be in a position to assist me. After all a new set of eyes on a problem can sometimes shed light in the most unexpected way.

As to the way one reports or flags up a potential bug, then maybe we should adhere to a procedure we could all sign up to; have that "registered" officially by SoFo; have the "issue" trackable by some form of update site; have the item road tested by pros and non-pros; invite SoFo to take some official line when and where this "fix" will eventually be actioned to be realeased into the Vegas community. What do you think of this as a way to go forward? - Surely SoFo recognises us as their prime source of development and testing. I'd like to think that in some small way I might have added to their vast knowledge base of continual improvement.

I do realise this far away from your original post - but then again maybe you have raised some issues that might be worth chasing by SoFo. I can't comment on where they might or might not stand on this one.

My very best regards,

Grazie

Well Weasel, you can indeed title a thread whatever you want. But picking false and misleading titles doesn't help your creditability. Not when you keep getting proved wrong. And crying "bug" in a forum like this is very much like yelling FIRE in a theater. The first time, maybe the second people will listen. After that... lots of luck. You're just digging yourself a deeper hole.

I think some (at least me) are getting annoyed with you jumping up and down crying "bug" almost every post you make where the more likely reason you're having problems is YOU are doing something wrong. A "bug" should show up on everyone's system for many things, usually will on many and certainly on more than just YOUR system. If not, very unlikely it is a bug in the classical use of the word as it applies to "broken" software.

AS far as being "loyal" to a brand, I guess you could say that many do like SoFo products in general, Vegas in particular. Mainly because Vegas is a REMARKABLY slick piece of software that is darn near impossible to crash (in the rare event it does, most likely the real reason is Windows), it is easy to use and the same time it is very powerful and what many find trully amazing is several of the guys that actually wrote the software respond prompty to questions in this forum. What's not to love?

Besides, you kind of got to like a software company that's located in all places Madison Wisconsin. Not exactly the center of the high tech universe.

> Would it be better if I didn't report these problems, and they took longer to fix... or never got fixed?

I have to agree with BillyBoy. You haven’t found any bugs yet. I went back and looked at your other posts. Nothin’ but operator error on your part. Your bug claims are unfounded. If you need help getting something to work just ask for it. But don't go screaming "bug".

> Should we all just blindly accept what software developers do? Quite the contrary, we need to be assertive in order to help improve the product. Sitting back and letting companies rest on their laurels does everyone a disservice.

You obviously haven’t a clue about Sonic Foundry. Sonic Foundary has NEVER rested on their laurels. They are the benchmark that other companies are measured by. This is NOT Pinnacle or Ulead. These people deserve a lot more respect than you are giving them. They are extremely responsive to their customers and you would be hard pressed to find another software company in the world who has as high a quality product or are as conscientious as they are. BAR NONE. Sonic Foundry is exemplary of what all software companies should strive to be. Solid code, knowledgeable caring customer service. There is no need to be assertive. Simply be polite and they will respond.

~jr

You come across like a dick, sorry. It would be one thing if you just explained the problem you are having but you come on here and act like sonic foundry has a personal vendetta against you.

I'm sorry, but I've been following this forum every day since Vegas 4.0 came out. I've had nothing but trouble getting Vegas to work correctly, with various field/frame errors, freeze-ups, etc. Yet it seems like every time someone posts with a problem, he/she gets a backlash assuming operator error. And God forbid the problem should involve something coming out of an Adobe product.

Maybe Weasel is over-posting his "bugs." But as a user who has posted more than a few times, and gotten nothing in response other than some unhelpful criticism of both my own abilities and Adobe, I'm inclined to believe that this is an actual issue.

I've come in as an impartial, couldn't care less user who has been with NLE's for seven years. I've cursed out Premiere more times than I can count. However, my objective view is that Vegas has its own set of problems, and those problems need to be dealt with. (At least the program doesn't randomly crash, unlike Adobe's consistent failure of an NLE). However, the frustrating thing is that many users seem to have taken on the same attitude I found in Apple users when I first started choosing a computer - they don't want to hear anything bad about their product, and spend a disproportionate amount of time bagging on the other guy. How is that helpful?

Again, I apologize. This is not meant to be a criticism of any particular user, or even of Sonic, which seems to at least try to solve some of the easier-to-fix issues. However, I've been consistently frustrated when I see serious problems such as the black flash/green triangle/whatever you want to call it problem being ignored, or when I see another Adobe-bash starting up. It's not solving the problem.

I'm sorry. You too seem to be hung up on "complaining" (over trivial issues), I checked your posting history and it seems you have "problems" that effect very few and/or can't be duplicated and then you may be wondering aloud why your problems doesn't get more attention. It doesn't work that way in forums. The 'squeaky wheel gets the grease' applies. If someone reports a problem, and others can duplicate it, it frequently gets a lot of attention, usually very fast. If not, it tends to fade quickly and doesn't have much chance to bubble up to the top again.

I've posted here for about two years and in that time I've reported some odd things. I may have got a response or two, but usually such questions that are very specific die quickly. I conclude it must have been something dumb I did or something weird with the source file. It doesn't mean I was ignored, rather more likely nobody else had the same problem. Time to shrug my shoulders and move on. Such it the nature of forums, newsgroups, etc..

I've further noticed that people coming from other NLE's tend to have a mind set as to how some things should be done and seem at least on the surface having trouble letting go of old habits.

Recently one guy had a fit because Vegas caculates frame rates correctly and he was bitterly complaining that while the problem was caused by that "P" thing or After Effects, I forget which, that even through they were the 'broken' software, he demanded that Vegas was the one that should be "fixed" meaning be changed to confirm to the half-ass way Adobe did it, incorrectly.

I assure I and I'm gussing others ESPECIALLY SoFo wants to hear about things that aren't working or "bad" things as you put it. The first thing is you have to PROVE what you claim is broken. The best way is to carefuly explain what happened and see if others experience it too. If something not working correctly, then others should be able to duplicate the problem. Till then, I suggest you look inward.

Ryan,

I read through all 9 of your posts and apparently you are having difficulty get a project that was capture and created with Premiere into Vegas using the EDL from Premiere. SonicEPM has explained that this is not something that Vegas supports well but gave you tips on what to try and rmack350 explained to you that SoFo actually calculates the 29.97 offset more accurately than Adobe does but the fact that they calculate it different may account for your frame “off-by-one” problems. I actually think you got some good responses to your posts.

I personally think you are taking a big risk in switching tools in the middle of a project. This is something I would never consider. I don’t even upgrade the tools I have or uninstall software in the middle of a project. I don’t think most people would do that but maybe it’s just me. So you see, it’s hard to help you when we’ve never actually tried what you’re doing.

I would finish your project in Premiere. Then start the next one fresh in Vegas right from the capture and I’ll bet you have a much smoother time of it. I’m sorry I can’t be of more help but I never actually used Premiere.

~jr

Well, if you did read my most posts you'll see I'm now working with the raw footage. Vegas is still giving me a field problem - it seems to be taking the last field of my footage and sticking it in the front when rendering. Unless of course I move it around a bit, stand on my left foot, and the time on my bedroom clocks adds up to seven. Or something (I haven't figured out the magic combination to make it go back to normal yet). Of course, by invoking the forbidden "Adobe" name, I may have hurt my cause in getting the problem fixed.

In any event, my point wasn't to revive my posts. I've sort of given up getting it to work correctly and now I'm just looking at work-arounds. My point was that I was inclined to believe Weasel, given my own problems. And that I didn't appreciate him getting instantly attacked when he tried to bring up a potential issue. Maybe he is wrong. Maybe it is user error. But this thread contained entirely too many personal attacks, and seems to go along with a general trend that I thought I would point out, in the hopes of making this a more useful forum. There are bugs in Vegas. Maybe not all of them can be fixed through a user forum, but it's not helpful to simply sniff and say well, YOU must be doing something wrong, because it certainly can't be our beloved Vegas.

The fact is that if there is a real problem (bug) in Vegas and the user contacts Sonic Foundry with the information, they will test it and respond sometimes in a day or two. I used Primere for two years and it would not accept a variety of AVI files and still won't accept mpeg files. I am sure that if this file was generated in After Effects and it dosen't read in Vegas it could be sent to Sofo and they would provide an answer. I know that when I had problems in Primere and tried to get an answer, I couldn't find anyone to respond and would have to pay for an answer. Every request I have made to Sofo has been answered quickly with good information and every problem I thought i had with Vegas had turned out to be operator error or a problem in my system. I know that it is frustrating when you are trying to solve a problem and perhaps have a deadline. I would suggest however that if you had simply asked for help, you would have gotten good sugestions and people who would have worked with you to try to solve the problem. People on this forum and other Vegas forums have often gone out of their way to assist a fellow user in finding a solution to their problem. I would like to see this attitude maintained. I would suggest that if you really want help that you ask for it in a respectful manner and you will get it. If you have found a bug, others including Sofo will test it out and try to develop a fix or work around. Also I noticed that Sonic Foundry responded to this thread with questions regarding your concern. I couldn't find your response, I hope you made contact and they were able to solve the problem.

Hey, what the heck is the "black, flash, green triangle problem"? I remember I had the grey blocks problem going out to firewire when I first used Primere, but it turned out to be a problem with my motherboard. It took me three months of testing an research to find it an fix it. Since I went to Vegas, I have been trying real hard to get Vegas to have a problem, but it is stubborn and just continues to truck on. I did have a minor problem with jerky preview of mpeg files which I fixed by remembering to turn on DMA transfer on my data hard drive. I have heard of problems reported which turned out to be IRQ conflicts, driver update problems, or chipset problems. If you are having concerns, contact Sofo, I"m sure they will be very helpful.

Uhm, I don't live on this forum, I just came here to complain about some problems. I don't have a fanatical relationship with any commercial product, but I do want to help improve the products that I think are worth supporting.

FYI I have worked as the head of a professional alpha software testing team, and am currently an invited alpha tester for a very high profile graphic software company. I'm not a crackpot, just someone who wants these problems fixed. That benefits everyone, whether you realize it or not.

Perhaps I have been too aggressive, but that is the result of frustration with an otherwise excellent application. I have been using Vegas for audio production since it was released, and have only recently delved into the finer points of video in Vegas. So I was surprised to run into bugs and design limitations.

Regarding the backwards video issue, that was my ignorance BUT it was created by inadequate documentation.

For the last time, Windows Media Player read this AVI file, and Vegas did not. So it's not After Effects' fault, it's a problem with Vegas. Maybe a non-reproducible bug, but from where I sit it's a bug just the same. Whether or not it's due to stricter conformity to standards is a moot point when the program crashes with a GPF-- which it did.

I'm afraid you're confusing "fanatical relationship" which people that actually take the time to READ the manaul (I did. All of it, every word) and I have used the application for litterally THOUSANDS of hours. I'm not alone. Unlike other forums where there is a LOT of noise and much grumbling and poor or no support from the software developer, this forum is different. Most people want it to stay that way.

Complaining is OK. I've done my share a time or two. <wink> However endless complaining is counterproductive to the purpose of this forum which is peer to peer.

I don't "live" in the forum, but for sure I DO spent a lot of time here. You're coming across as a complainer. Even your choice of nick name suggests that. Everything that doesn't function as you think it should you immediately label a bug, regardless if it is or not. That doesn't help get your problem solved any sooner and it seems you're being overly defensive when people are only trying to help you.

Software has bugs. A given. All software. SoFo software in general is remarkably free of bugs, at least the serious kind common to much other software. That's why someone yelling bug, bug, bug, only to be proven worng and then going on the defensive to prop up his defalted ego looks kind of foolish.

... meanwhile, back to your problem ...

Does this problem happen for all .avi files you create in AE or has this happened just the once? If you can recreate it all the time can you get it to happen with a MUCH smaller .avi? If you can maybe you could post it somehwere so SoFo can grab it and take a look at it?

Scott

redrogue5, I didn’t mean to sound like everything must be user error. I apologize if it sounded like I was coming off that way. Obviously Vegas has bugs or we wouldn’t be at 4.0c.

I did read your posts. It doesn’t mean I interpreted them correctly. ;-) I knew you were using raw footage but I assumed you were still using the footage that was captured in Premiere. This is not the same as recapturing the footage in Vegas. Raw footage is not as “raw” as you may think. The capture program adds a header to the data when it stores it as an AVI file. This adds an opportunity to mess things up. If the footage was captured in Vegas than I apologize, I misunderstood. If the raw footage was captured from Premiere then my suggestion still stands. Don’t judge Vegas until you start a project by capturing in Vegas. There is apparently enough flexibility in the AVI spec to cause files captured with one program to not be read by another.

For example: I can’t open Vegas captured files in lots of other programs (e.g., Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2, Ulead Cool 3D Studio, AlamDV, particle Illusion SE 2.0). I have to re-render them in Vegas with “Create an OpenDML (AVI version 2.0) compatible file” unchecked in order for other applications to be able to open them. This is one of my frustrations by the way. ;-) There is something in the AVI structure that Vegas adds that causes other application not to be able to process the file correctly. So perhaps what’s happening to you is something like this but in reverse. Perhaps there is something Adobe is adding to the AVI that is doing the same in Vegas.

~jr

weasel_ferret. OK so we’ve all been frustrated (including me). It’s water under the bridge.

I wouldn’t assume that just because Windows Media Player can open it, then it must be a bug in Vegas. WMP is only opening it for playback and not editing and so perhaps its not hitting the problem because it doesn’t need to analyze it well enough to be able to edit it. Can you open it in any other NLE (besides Premiere)?

Also, Sonic Foundry replied to your request the same day you posted it and asked what version of After Effects you are using. Perhaps they would like to help you fix the problem or they know what’s going on. Did you reply to them? I’m sure they want to work well with After Effects and would be interested in getting to the bottom of this if you reply.

~jr