Concur with Bill. We flat out refuse to DVD any tape that has copyright notices on it but otherwise if it looks professionally done, get the customer to sign a form stating he/she owns the material. Replicators do the same to us. I wouldn't sweat it, despite you Americans having the reputation of being by far the most litigous people on earth!

Peter

Yea... Peter! My uncle Bob is an ambulance chaser, I mean an attorney. -:)

Many years ago I had to fill out accident reports for our fleet of drivers. Anyhow mostly minor stuff until one day one of our drivers is going down the Kennedy towards O'Hare airport and without warning the steering wheel comes off his Hertz rent a semi. He panics and plows into a row of cards that were inching along. Thankfully he wasn't gong more than 20 MPH.

A few weeks later a copy of the law suit from one of the hit drivers comes across my desk. It almost funny to read the flowerly language they use to make it sound worse that what it was.

Every setence started with something like your driver in a deliberate, reckless and very careless manner lost control of, blah, blah, blah and did, blanky, blanky, blank.

1. How come she can't prove she owns them?
2. Credits usually say "Original footage/audio/recorded/ edited/filmed/produced/provided by" Revised by"XXX"
3. Even if she owns the show itself, she might not own all the rights to the show. If a union shot the show, played on the show, etc, etc, she almost definitely doesn't have all those rights. By 'show,' you could mean a lot of different things. Make sure you have releases. As Billyboy and pb have pointed out, we live in a litigious society. CYA in these cases.

BillyBoy: Thanks for the info. Sounds 'bout right.
PB: How'd you know I was from this side o' the Pond?
Spot: 1) I don't knw that she can't. I haven't asked. Seemed rude to do so at the time.
2, 3) Thanks for the info as well. I ... actually... don't have an attourney (don't yell!). I am mainly wondering if I keep my name off it entirely, if this project could bite me in some way.
I say "her show," because it's event video of her fashion show, I'm told. She designs clothing and has "shows" and has those taped. She calls these tapes, "her shows," her models, her footage. But now I'm hearing that she's getting the footage from another location ("her studio"). There's a substancial language barrior, so I haven't ventured many questions at this point. Dang it. To ask her to provide proof that she owns the footage would be to call her a liar, I fear. Or, to prove that she's not a liar, at any rate.
I'm not asking for legal advice, but just for advice on a direction. I'm guessing the advice is, "get a lawyer." Saddly, with what I'm willing to work for, I can't afford one.
Yipes! This is stickier than I thought (original thinking being: EASY EDITS! EASY MONEY! YEA!).

If she's on the up and up, she won't/shouldn't be offended. It could possibly be that she doesn't know the legal entanglements, and if you ask in that light, of doing a CYA, she'll appreciate it. If it's not clearly owned by someone else, it's a little difficult, albeit can likely be shown, that you have some culpability. No one here is an IP attorney. You don't really often need one, but if you are doing this professionally, you'll want one at some point, to make your mind at ease. Any of us doing this regularly and for a living, have attorneys that have IP backgrounds. Just having a law degree and passing the bar doesn't mean they know squat about one of the top 3 most convoluted legal channels there are. Find a good one, ask for an hour of time, have a list of questions laid out on paper, don't be too ambitious about answers. But it will be one of the best couple hundred bucks you'll spend.
If she's shooting these on her property, with a hired cameraman, she likely owns the footage. Music would be your next concern, as to whether she's used copyrighted music and you are replacing it.
Keeping your name out of the credits only makes it harder for someone to find you, but doesn't limit your culpability if something is amiss here.
Depending on where you are, I can recommend some good IP attorneys, particularly if you are in Cal, NYC, Florida.

If I can throw in my two bobs worth here.
I think a few basic legal principals are getting overlooked, certainly ones that you should check out with someone versed in these matters but I don't see why you'd need someone versed in IP.

As far as I know every legal system and principal is based upon 'reasonable' actions, this applies across civil and criminal law. If I hire a man to do work on my house he makes a reasonable assumption that it is my house, if it turns out it wasn't my house is he in anyway liable? Maybe if I didn't have the keys to the house it would be reasonable for the law to expect him to be suspicious and ask more difficult questions before he flattened the place.

Now if someone asks me to cut a video for them with scenes from Ben Hur in it then I certainly think it would be reasonable for me to ask a damn lot of very difficult questions before I'd even think about it.

If someone comes to me with a video of their products how far do I have to go to be considered to have taken 'reasonable care' before I start editing, should I ask for the names, addresses and phone numbers of everyone involved in it, hand that to a lawyer to get releases from each and every one of them. This is not not some scenario I've cooked up by the way, Im right in the thick of it now. The people I'm doing the work for don't own the trademarks of these products. My 'reasonable' belief is that he, as their agent, has the OK to produce these advertisments. My equally reasonable assumption is that if he doesn't then he's the one in the firing line, after all he's the one with a relationship with the owners, not me. Certainly I've advised him of his obligations, should I ask him for written authorisation from all the parties involved, that would seem most unreasonable to me, after all I'm only doing work for hire, I don't share in the profits of that work.

To look at this another way, if I'm producing something for sale, then absolutely I should exercise extreme care over IP to ensure I'm not wrongfully profiting from someone elses work. I have absolutely no problem with this at all, after all each and everyone of us could well need that same protection ourselves one day. What I do have an issue with is that as someone doing work paid for by the hour how we are suddenly the frontline troops in this battle. I don't have a problem with educating our clients, I don't have a problem with taking reasonable care but I do have a problem with the troops who are following reasonable orders seeming to be the only ones held accountable.

Now maybe I've totally missed something here, I hope to hell not otherwise we'll all soon turn into heaps of paranoid quivering jelly.

Everyone,

This was a good review for me, the feedback from everyone was helpful. Its always easier when you can produce your own production from the very beginning. You know the camera person, the editior, the royalty free music etc.

Now if I am being hired by Mr. Doe to film project X lets say, where do our concerns lie, on the permission to film the people "in the shot". I communicate to my clients that they are responsible for all permits, etc to be on a location. I haven't had any problems yet, but wanted to throw this out.

Does anyone know of a internent site, or book that offers generic release forms that can be customized?

Thanks,

Chad

Basic release form:

J--

More forms at http://www.videouniversity.com/releases.htm
and http://www.thecfc.org/downloads/downloads.htm

Mike

Once again, my mom was right. Shoulda gone to law school.

Changing the subject slightly, I have heard that here in Oz it may be necessary to get permission and pay royalties to use outdoor shots in a comercial production. It seems that mountains are owned by the Federal gov. beaches by local councils, buildings by someone etc. etc.
Surely this can't be correct but stranger things have happened. The basis for this was a radio interview with a still photographer who shoots for calendars who said life was getting very fraught.

This thread was all good info for me (and hopefully for others as well!).
Thanks very much!

VV Users,

Does anyone have a reference for a generic public waiver that can be posted for public events sharing with them that they will be video taped and smd at anyone attending the show agrees to be filmed, and gives the usage rights to the promoter into perpetuity.

Thanks,

Chad