Anyone experienced buying the $1999 FX1 from Royal?

mhbstevens wrote on 1/25/2005, 8:56 AM
This is NOT a thread about whether NY discounters are a good source or not, we have had that discussion before and opinions vary. I'm looking to see if anyone has purchased the FX1 at $1999 as advertised by Royal Camera just to know if this is real or not. If you have no first-hand knowlege please do not take this thread off to the pros and cons of these cheap grey-market guys, we all know the problems with Royal Camera in general terms, as as I said, we all done that before. I'm looking to see if this deal is for real.

Cheers,

Mike Stevens

Comments

boomhower wrote on 1/25/2005, 9:13 AM
I'll go out on a limb here and say you probably won't find anyone on this forum who has bought a camera from Royal. PMASTERS would give his left arm for one of these cameras and I'd venture to say as bad as he wants one, he wouldn't even take the chance.

You've posted on this topic in the past and others have given you advice so I won't go into what has been said over and over and over and over again. I would say call them and try to place the order for $1999 and see what happens.....with a reseller ratings score of 1.9 out of 10 I think you know the answer to that question. Do a google search and you'll see plenty of actual experiences if that is what you want to read. If it was real and worth the effort, B&H and these other companies would be out of business.

Good Luck.

B_JM wrote on 1/25/2005, 9:29 AM
it really seems a crazy question even ask

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1895.html
p@mast3rs wrote on 1/25/2005, 9:44 AM
Boomhower is right. I want this cam badly and theres no way in heck I would buy from Royal. These shops offer rediculously low prices and when you try to order, they try to upsell you on every single add on that is completely overpriced. $60 for a 3 pack of tapes, $400 for a filter, $300 for a longer battery, etc... And when you decline the extras, they are suddenly out of stock.

The truth is, if you buy the extras they are pushing, you end up paying the same price that you would have at B&H so you really arent getting a deal. Not to mention most of these places offer very crappy warranty if any at all.
RichMacDonald wrote on 1/25/2005, 12:57 PM
(Sounds like you're firm in not getting OT into the usual issues here, but I think I should still give you my background with Royal.)

I have not bought the FX1 from them, but I did buy the TRV900 from them back in 2000. As bad as they say. Worse, really. Scum in the front line when you're trying to place the order. Scum in the backoffice when you're trying to deal with the problems.

Mind you, canceling the Visa and certified-mailing back the unacceptably crap accessories did work. I basically broke even with the B&H alternative, but it cost me a month of stress and effort. Actually about 3 months to clear everything with my Visa. And Royal did NOT screw me on grey market stuff. The camera itself was ok.

See for yourself. Here's what I think will happen:

1) "Give me your credit card number."

You decide to give it to them or not. At this point it won't hurt, plus you won't get any further if you don't.

2) Try and order just the FX1 and nothing else.

This will lead to a nasty phone battle. Assuming you get through the battle without giving in, either you'll be told the item is out of stock (in which case you have your answer so you bail) or they'll pretend to take your purchase order and then blow it off. So you can call back in a few days with your tracking number to see how things are going...and begin the dance again. You're not in a hurry, right?

3) That's about it.

IMHO, you'll only get the camera if you agree to buy a bunch of overpriced additional junk as well. If this is ok with you, try and have a list of competing prices for all that stuff that you can throw back at him to at least get the prices reduced. Maybe search through B&H as you're talking to the sales guy, so you have an idea of how much extra you're spending. You're going to pay high shipping but that is the price of paying the game.

ADD THE ITEMS UP YOURSELF, since he will try and throw an extra hundred or two in there. THERE IS NO SALES TAX, so his individual prices totalled will equal your individual prices totalled. This was the big mistake I made. I assumed the extra two hundred was sales tax when it was only him adding two hundred to the bottom line. And don't expect your invoice to be itemized.

Of course, as soon as you get the shipment you make some calls to verify you didn't get grey market stuff. If you did, you immediately cancel the credit card and certify mail it all back. All it costs you is the return mailing. As I said, they did NOT send me a grey market camera.

Good luck.
busterkeaton wrote on 1/25/2005, 1:37 PM
Mike,

If you want to go through this, go right ahead.

But think about how they can get away with this.

The only way they can get away with this is you have already convinced yourself it's a good deal. You keep telling yourself I'm saving $1300 over buying it at B and H. Then when you start to learn it's a crappy deal they are depending your cognitive dissonance (if you have convinced yourself something is it so, it takes a while to unconvince you) and your politeness (most people don't want to argue constantly) in the face of their high-pressure sales techniques.

Their entire business is based on you not realizing it's a bad deal soon enough. (And whatever interest they can earn on your credit card charge before they give it back to you.)
winrockpost wrote on 1/25/2005, 2:10 PM
Call them up and try to buy it.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 1/25/2005, 3:05 PM
> try and have a list of competing prices for all that stuff that you can throw back at him to at least get the prices reduced

According to one reviewer on , this doesn’t work. They will claim that what they are giving you is the “Pro” version or so new, isn’t listed on the web. Royal claimed they were sending this man a 170x Lexar memory card even though he could only find 80x cards on the web. When he got off the phone he called Lexar and they confirmed that they make no such card! The same happened with a $500 Sigma lens that they changed him $1400 for. He was also charged $160 for 2nd day air and when he got the shipping confirmation, it was sent 5-day ground (for $160!).

Let’s face it. You cannot get the FX1 from Royal for $1999 so why bother? It’s a scam.

~jr
nickle wrote on 1/25/2005, 3:09 PM
I just went to their website and placed an order for the camera to be shipped C.O.D.
but stopped just before actually placing the order.

What would have happened if I clicked "Place the order"?
Joe White wrote on 1/25/2005, 3:57 PM
You would get an email saying basicly" You nedd to call us to confirm your order" then you go through all the crap post above said....
winrockpost wrote on 1/25/2005, 4:51 PM
.........I'm looking to see if this deal is for real
If it was I would buy 20 or so a month and put them on ebay and move to the beach.
flippin wrote on 1/25/2005, 4:52 PM
mhbstevens,

about 8 or 9 months ago i was in the market to buy a dvx100a. i e-mailed several of the lowest-price outfits on the internet with a list of requirements:

1) name and direct telephone # of a senior-level person in sales with whom i would deal exclusively

2) confirmation that the product was currently in stock and would be shipped without false delays if i placed an order.

3) confirmation of tracking number for the shipment

4) agreement that i would not be solicited to buy unwanted products as a condition of purchase.

Royal did not respond but i did call them to inquire about there listed prices. as you will see from their website, they are still adverting the dvx100a about $1000 less than anyone else's lowest price--turns out (and this is like pulling teeth to get the information) their lowest price for the dvx100a (and i'm assuming this is true for the fx1 as well) is that it is only for the camera body. i.e., no accessories are supplied. if you look into their "packages" to the right side of the screen, it is still not clear that you can get camcorder + normal manufacturer-supplied accessories for a reasonable price.

The only outfit that did respond to my e-mail was us1camera and they played by the rules i set down from them, although they are somewhat aggravating people. i got the dvx100a for $3100--at the time about $400-500 less than other, more reputable places were selling it at the time. It came factory-sealed with all of the manuf. supplied accessories and i was pleased. as for additional items, i wanted a wide angle lens, a long-life battery, a carrying bag, and overnight shipping. the total cost of these extras was an additional $400.

not to re-open any old wounds, but most of the people at dvxuser.com were absolutely livid when i described this experience. they accused me of lying, they accused me of being the president of us1camera, and they accused me of having been ripped off without even knowing it. although i provided actual product numbers and careful descriptions, one individual tirelessly posted pictures of unrelated cheap junk on sale at e-bay along with his continuing rant that i'd been ripped off and didn't even realize it.

i'm quite sure one can easily be ripped off--i might have been in serious danger of it myself--however, in the end i did not feel that i was ripped off at all. i got a terrific camcorder (current fx1 vs dvx100a debate notwithstanding) and i got what i consider to be a good deal.

but royal...from my brief discussions with them i would say that it's likely the nay-sayers in this thread have it right about them. if you decide to deal with them make them tell you in writing exactly what it is that you will get for the price and don't assume anything about the routine manufacturer supplied accessories. they almost certainly will not be included.

best regards,

Lee
RichMacDonald wrote on 1/25/2005, 8:25 PM
>> try and have a list of competing prices for all that stuff that you can throw back at him to at least get the prices reduced

>According to one reviewer on resellerratings, this doesn’t work. [snip]

I don't disagree. If you didn't understand from my comments that every accessory you buy is likely to be an overpriced piece of useless junk, then I wasn't making myself clear enough :-) All I was suggesting is that you try and reduce the price you pay for all the extra overpriced useless junk you're going to have buy in order to make the purchase.

Now you could (a) buy as little additional overpriced useless junk as possible for as little money as possible then (b) send it all back except for the camera. If you did, I would applaud you. Just make sure you get the individual price of the camera in some reasonably legal form, so that you can straighten out the cancellation amount with your credit card company. Oh yes, and Royal will be attempting to hit you up with a 30+% restocking fee so you will have to tell them to shove that you know where. Or rather, your credit card company will have to do that. Worst case scenario is that your credit card company cannot get satisfaction negotiating with Royal, in which case you may simply have to send the camera back later in order to wipe the slate clean and clear your credit card. (So don't use the camera until its all over.) But hopefully the battle with your credit card card company (who really is on your side) will cost Royal enough time and money that its cheaper for them to let you keep the camera and settle for some acceptable amount. Stop-payment on your credit card really is your trump card, so if you stick to your guns you're only out the return shipping if it doesn't work out.

Final word: I knew all this going into my own purchase. And still I screwed up. Selling ice to eskimos...those salesmen are truly skilled.
mhbstevens wrote on 1/26/2005, 10:28 AM
Just to inter-ject. I know about the overpriced extras, I have purchased much audio and video gear from these grey guys in the past. I never buy anything other than the advertised special. Sure they puish but I can say no. I have never then been refused the product. And if they do say no then it's quits and nothing lost.

When I bought my Oly E29 from Abe's of Main they did lye to me and said the wideangle/tele adapters I bought were Oylympus when they were imatations. I send them back with a sharp note and got a full refund of the accessories. Sure they called and tried to make me keep them with some discounts, but I said no, and if they realize you are firm they will not waste their time arguing. I do agree thought it takes nerve and is stressful. But if this is the price of having or not having a FX1 I am still wondering.

Mike
Jay Gladwell wrote on 1/26/2005, 10:45 AM
Mike, you're missing the point of everything said here. These morons at Royal are not going to sell you an FX1 for $1999, period.

Jay
RichMacDonald wrote on 1/26/2005, 12:56 PM
>Mike, you're missing the point of everything said here. These morons at Royal are not going to sell you an FX1 for $1999, period.

Nah. After all this discussion, its still just talk. Someone really needs to try, because obviously no one has :-)

Come on, Mike Stevens. Give it a whirl.
Xander wrote on 1/26/2005, 1:44 PM
Always buy from a reputable dealer. It will save you money in the long run. Not just in $$, but in the time, effort and stressed envolved.
orca wrote on 1/26/2005, 3:52 PM
Guys,

I think these companies can stay in business because a lot of ppl didn't try to research before doing business with them. I for one was one of them. Good thing I just bought some point and shoot digicam at the time, and found out it was a grey mkt product after a long hrs of calling back just to confirm the order because I didn't get it after a few weeks. And every time I called they transferred me back & forth to a lot of different people, which tried to sell me different kind of accessories for outrageous price.

By the time I got it, I was too tired to "fight" and just want to get over with it. The good news is the camera is working just fine (without the warranty). I didn't know about the bizrate.com or reseller ratings. If I knew, I wouldn't have bought anything from these cheap priced stores.

Later I found out, that it's one of their strategies too that they have several "webstores" with different names, but usually the price range is about the same or the web design is similar (even their 800 numbers sometimes). Plus, they also have their people to put high ratings on the bizrate / reseller ratings website to deceive skeptics. So beware!

Learning all these, I bought my DV cam from B&H. I guess B&H is one of those who reap the benefits of these scammers due to so many converts to their stores. :)





busterkeaton wrote on 1/26/2005, 4:02 PM
By the way, as has been noted on these boards a couple of times, Abe's of Maine is actually located in Brooklyn, NY.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 1/26/2005, 4:33 PM
> Abe's of Maine is actually located in Brooklyn, NY

1957 Coney Island Ave to be exact. Not only that but Abe’s of Maine does business as: Abe's of Maine (abesofmaine.com), a.k.a. Abe's Electronic Center (abeselectroniccenter.com), a.k.a. familyphotoandvideo.com, a.k.a CamerasandElectronics.com.

Here is a picture of Royal Camera. The best bet is to just go down and buy it in person. ;-)

You gotta check out where some of these places really are.

http://www.donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/

~jr
mhbstevens wrote on 2/1/2005, 9:40 AM
Well of course thatt's the choice. Agro, hassel, need to try several shops, calling your bank to stop payment, threats of suits, vs, paying B&H $1300 extra just for being nice. If I could afford it I would go to my local dealer and buy the Z1. Remeber the guys who but from these stores need a break. They take the risk or go without.

Is there any middle ground? Royal and about 6 other Brookoly stores are at $2000 but you will need pay $500 for a useless warrenty to keep them happy, so lets say $2500. B&H is at $3300, still $700 over the top. Is there anyone who is "nice" and "honest" for say $2900? I have not found them. Seems all risk or all top-dollar.

So as they say, "Is B&H my destiny?"

John_Cline wrote on 2/1/2005, 9:59 AM
"Is B&H my destiny?"

It is if you want a completely hassle-free purchasing experience with a supremely reputable dealer.

John
Orcatek wrote on 2/1/2005, 11:13 AM
Web price is std, but a good customer or the desire to make you a good one will often get a better price if you talk to them on high dollar items. Not sure how much, but worth your time for sure to call.




mhbstevens wrote on 2/1/2005, 8:43 PM
Thanks Orcatek. I'll try tommorow and let you know! I hate being such a cheap-po but I retired early on disability and try so hard to get the best deal I can on anything. I'm pretty good at it too. Got a friend to value a 99centsonly store bottle of wine I discovered at $14.00-19.00! I better drink one of thoses before I call B&H. Maybe they will deal more on the Z1?


Mike

craftech wrote on 2/2/2005, 9:12 AM
I find it hard to believe that anyone would tell Mike to even attempt buying from those thieves. No matter how many times the scams are pointed out to the New York attorney general's office, they never seem to stop any of them from continuing their dishonest business practices, and when they do (as in the case of "The Digital Dog") they just open up with a new name and fake location.
Mike,
I feel really bad for you if you "attempt" to buy from Royal Camera. I understand why you are tempted. People in your situation are how scum like Royal Camera stay in business (combined with low price search engines that accept paid advertising). A legitimate price for the camera is around $1000 more. Haggle with a few of the reputable ones like Vanns, Techonweb, B&H, and One Call. All of them charge between 0$ and $20 for shipping. Some of the others (like Abe's of Brooklyn) will charge hundreds to make up for the lower prices. Some will leave something out of the box or sell a defective one to you and you won't be able to return it unless you pay a difference that will cancel out any savings. Some of them have a return policy that is 7 days from the date you order it and don't ship for a week or more. And on and on it goes.

John