Anyone running Vegas on an I9-9900 yet?

JoeAustin wrote on 7/11/2019, 10:35 AM

Been looking for some time to squeeze more performance out of VP15. I posted a while back about upgrading my video card (R9 380) and was convinced that this would not yield much of what I was looking for. And that is smoother timeline performance, especially on multi camera productions. I currently have a well tuned gen 4 Intel i7 4790 system, and would love to hear from anyone who has moved to a system based on the i9 9900 processor.

Comments

MelvinGonsalvez wrote on 7/11/2019, 3:00 PM

I just installed VP16 on my recent PC build as follows:

 

ASUS WS X299 SAGE/10G MB

Intel i9-9920X (12 core, HT=24) CPU

Dual nVidia RTX 2080TI FE videocards in NVLink (running latest nVidia Studio Driver)

32GB DDR4 (expandable to 128GB)

SSD Drives (boot, programs, & project files) & 2, 2TB File Storage Drives

HP Omen Emperium 65" 4K HDR, 144hz G-Sync Monitor

Win 10 64bit (with all the latest updates)

Bose 5.1 Sound System

 

I wanted to test build some UHD collages with surround sound and output the HDR image builds to 4K Blu-ray.

 

JoeAustin wrote on 7/11/2019, 3:11 PM

I just installed VP16 on my recent PC build as follows:

 

ASUS WS X299 SAGE/10G MB

Intel i9-9920X (12 core, HT=24) CPU

Dual nVidia RTX 2080TI FE videocards in NVLink (running latest nVidia Studio Driver)

32GB DDR4 (expandable to 128GB)

SSD Drives (boot, programs, & project files) & 2, 2TB File Storage Drives

HP Omen Emperium 65" 4K HDR, 144hz G-Sync Monitor

Win 10 64bit (with all the latest updates)

Bose 5.1 Sound System

 

I wanted to test build some UHD collages with surround sound and output the HDR image builds to 4K Blu-ray.

 

Cool. Similar to what I am looking at. Curious to hear what you upgraded from and what the results are. Like full frame on a multi camera cut during shot changes especially. Also hoping for the ability to do multicam 4k without proxies.

MelvinGonsalvez wrote on 7/11/2019, 3:33 PM

My PC at home is a build I did about two years back and it's an i7 hexacore multithreaded cpu with dual GTX 1080 Ti's running in SLI. My footage was off my Sony AX53 (a 4K videocam, but set internally to record at 1080p 60fps and in 5.1) and I rendered the project out at 1080P, 60fps in stereo. A partially finished video project that I rendered as an MKV file (with best quality video and sound settings) in VP14 on that system was 17.5 min. long and 14.5GB in size.

JoeAustin wrote on 7/11/2019, 3:55 PM

My PC at home is a build I did about two years back and it's an i7 hexacore multithreaded cpu with dual GTX 1080 Ti's running in SLI. My footage was off my Sony AX53 (a 4K videocam, but set internally to record at 1080p 60fps and in 5.1) and I rendered the project out at 1080P, 60fps in stereo. A partially finished video project that I rendered as an MKV file (with best quality video and sound settings) in VP14 on that system was 17.5 min. long and 14.5GB in size.

Thanks for the update. I'd love to hear what the difference is vs the new machine. Render times is a good comparison, but am particularly interested in timeline smoothness.

MelvinGonsalvez wrote on 7/11/2019, 5:41 PM

Sorry, but my last Vegas project file (for the project mentioned) became corrupted along with all my saved project file updates after a problematic Win 10 OS update a few months ago. I then went and updated to the new windows build when it first came out and only then learned that other early adopters were also complaining about the file problems they encountered with what MS rolled out without proper quality control.

I'm just an intermittent, novice user of VP so I'll have to first re-tweak all the v16's general and internal program settings for this new PC and learn more of v16's new functionalities to improve any performance areas I can.

I just loaded up some 4k footage I previously shot (max. 30fps with my camera at a UHD recording level, AVCHD) to see how it plays back in the Preview Window and it was disappointingly slower than a slideshow. The HT CPU (24 cores total) was hitting 24%, memory was 15.4/32GB, and the two RTX 2080Tis were at 4 & 8% only. Perhaps I'll still have to crank out 1080p 60fps projects in the meantime till VP properly adds more multithread CPU & GPU support for project file decoding (of AVCHD files in particular), preview window playback, etc.

Would you or anyone else know of an actual UHD Blu-Ray Writer (external) on the market? My searches online and my calls to various stores have come up blank and some products are labelled in a misleading manner as they only playback 4K Blu-Ray and don't actually write to this hi-res format.

JoeAustin wrote on 7/11/2019, 6:10 PM

Thanks again for the response. One thing is for sure, Vegas utilizes the GPU to a limited extent. And only for effects and transitions on the timeline. It's all about the CPU, but even on my 4th gen i7, it rarely approaches 100%. Your comment about the 4K playback was helpful. Apparently, we still will need to rely on proxies. At least this might save me a chunk of money on a big upgrade. It also has me thinking that it may be time to move on.

MelvinGonsalvez wrote on 7/11/2019, 7:04 PM

I just did another pass at VP's settings and noticed that the "Scale output to fill display" box was checked by default in my Preview Window Preferences so I disabled it and now that file (a tripod mounted 180 degree pan of Seattle's skyline from the heights of nearby Kerry Park plays back properly:) The CPU hits around 20% usage and the videocards read at 7 & 3% usage accordingly. So that's a UHD native Sony file playing back at 30fps in stereo there.

I also tried both playing back one of my 1080p 60fps 5.1 native Sony AX53 file clip now after the setting change above and rendered out a section of dancers with elaborate outfits on in the Sony XAVC Intra 1920x1080 59.94p and it went well. The GPUs showed some activity when turned on in the software settings but they also showed about the same amount of usage when they were turned off. I forget offhand but I believe there was only one type of file render format that VP offered GPU render support for so far and I'll have to track that down and give you some comparative results when I get a chance.

MelvinGonsalvez wrote on 7/11/2019, 7:17 PM

Have you seen the UHD teaser (HDR, volumetric clouds, etc.) that MS recently released for their upcoming Flight Simulator 2020 build? The 4K realtime game captures they released show absolutely breathtaking high-res scenery, scene object models, Azure AI, etc,. and the size of their satellite imagery database is already reaching 2PB's (petabytes; 1PB = 1000 Terabytes) in size. I just signed up to try and join their open beta testing.

Go ahead and build your new dream PC and have fun, don't worry! I'm having a blast with mine and the HDR imagery on this HP 65" Emperium OMEN monitor is just fabulous to experience at up to 144Hz and everyone that sees it in person is likewise thrilled. It sits about 5' away from me which is just perfect for running all kinds of business and entertainment applications.

I'm just needing to learn more about the intricacies of the VP program and its growing capabilities and I'll give you more results once I correct my own setup mistakes and learn to work with VP's current shortcomings.

JoeAustin wrote on 7/12/2019, 7:10 AM

 

I'm just needing to learn more about the intricacies of the VP program and its growing capabilities and I'll give you more results once I correct my own setup mistakes and learn to work with VP's current shortcomings.

Melvin,

Thanks again for the follow up. Much appreciated. I may just have to take the dive and give it a go. There has to be some degree of improvement.

Used to be a big Flight Simulator user. Will defintely check out this preview. Sounds very cool.

I'd still love to hear from others that made the move to an i9 9900 platform. I'm currently working on a three camera 4K shoot, and it is unusable on my haswell i7. Even at draft auto. I'm building proxies, but it takes a looooong time and tons of disk space. Just trying to decide if it's worth the investment.

 

john-baker wrote on 7/14/2019, 10:46 AM

@MelvinGonsalvez

Hi

.. . . Would you or anyone else know of an actual UHD Blu-Ray Writer (external) on the market? My searches online and my calls to various stores have come up blank and some products are labelled in a misleading manner as they only playback 4K Blu-Ray and don't actually write to this hi-res format . . . .

Same here, I did find one UHD burner last year, however the price was exhorbitant at $800+ and it appears to have been pulled from the market.

I have also tried DVDFab to burn 4K to standard BD disc, however the program did not do what it says on the tin.

HTH

John EB

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP Pro Premium, Video Pro X4, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015, DVD Architect 7 build 100..

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

JoeAustin wrote on 7/14/2019, 10:55 AM

 

I have also tried DVDFab to burn 4K to standard BD disc, however the program did not do what it says on the tin.

HTH

John EB

Standard Blu Ray will not support 4K. DVD Architect does do a great job of re encoding other resolutions, including 4K. Or you could use a tool like imgburn to just write UHD files to a BD disc.

Frankly, with the decline in interest in spinning discs, I doubt UHD discs will ever be cost effective on a small run. I just deliver 4K to clients online, or via flash drive.

john-baker wrote on 7/15/2019, 7:49 AM

@JoeAustin

Hi

Did you take a look at the claims for the software I mentioned?

IMHO they a re similar to @MelvinGonsalvez comment

. . . . some products are labelled in a misleading manner as they only playback 4K Blu-Ray and don't actually write to this hi-res format . . . .

It is a pity that it is not possible to burn UHD to BD disc, unlike burning Blu-Ray on to a standard DVD disc, with the proviso that the movie length is less than 25 - 30 mins, and play this in a BD player (not DVD player).

John EB

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP Pro Premium, Video Pro X4, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015, DVD Architect 7 build 100..

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

JoeAustin wrote on 7/15/2019, 8:11 AM

@JoeAustin

Not until now. Sure enough, DVDFab claims to be able to create a UHD compliand disc from a BD50. It looks to do a transcode as well, and I'd be curious how good that is. No doubt that they do claim UHD disc creation capability.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 7/15/2019, 11:14 AM

I just installed VP16 on my recent PC build as follows:

 

ASUS WS X299 SAGE/10G MB

Intel i9-9920X (12 core, HT=24) CPU

Dual nVidia RTX 2080TI FE videocards in NVLink (running latest nVidia Studio Driver)

32GB DDR4 (expandable to 128GB)

SSD Drives (boot, programs, & project files) & 2, 2TB File Storage Drives

HP Omen Emperium 65" 4K HDR, 144hz G-Sync Monitor

Win 10 64bit (with all the latest updates)

Bose 5.1 Sound System

 

I wanted to test build some UHD collages with surround sound and output the HDR image builds to 4K Blu-ray.

 


Do you have any experience with such a configuration by now? Especially, what is your Impression about the preview of 4K footage - and if you use ACES what about that?

Would be great to hear something about that.

john-baker wrote on 7/15/2019, 11:34 AM

@JoeAustin

Hi

. . . . DVDFab claims to be able to create a UHD compliand disc from a BD50. It looks to do a transcode as well, and I'd be curious how good that is. No doubt that they do claim UHD disc creation capability. . . . .

In my experience it gets - 👎.

John EB

 

 

Last changed by john-baker on 7/15/2019, 11:35 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Lateral thinking can get things done!

VPX, MEP Premium, MEP Pro Premium, Video Pro X4, MEP 2016, and earlier versions, Music Maker Premium, Music Maker 2016, 2015, DVD Architect 7 build 100..

Running Windows 10 64bit on Intel i7-8700K 3.2 GHz, 16Gb RAM, 1Tb + 2 x 2Tb internal HDD + 60Gb internal SSD, + 6 x 2Tb ext HDDs, Sony FDR-AX53 Video camera, Contour HD 1080 and Sony HDR-AS30V Sports cams.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 7/16/2019, 11:07 AM

Still nothing to the experience with that processor?

JoeAustin wrote on 7/16/2019, 1:01 PM

Still nothing to the experience with that processor?

Melvin was nice enough to share, but admittedly, his experience is limited with VP. There must be some experienced Vegas Pro users who have migrated to an i9 out there? Especially looking to hear if multi camera 4K is possible without proxies. It's more like a Powerpoint presentation at the moment.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 7/16/2019, 1:29 PM

Agree with you. But maybe nobody here has invested in such a system by now?

OldSmoke wrote on 7/16/2019, 5:04 PM

Still nothing to the experience with that processor?

Melvin was nice enough to share, but admittedly, his experience is limited with VP. There must be some experienced Vegas Pro users who have migrated to an i9 out there? Especially looking to hear if multi camera 4K is possible without proxies. It's more like a Powerpoint presentation at the moment.

Two things.

1. I am not sure if I would consider myself experienced enough but I do use Vegas since Sony Vegas Pro 7.

2. I don't have a i9-9920x but rather opted for the i7-9800x for my recent build (see my signature); I didn't see much advantage in the additional 2 cores for almost double the price.

I can do 4 cam multicam with 4K XAVC-S from AX700 and a6300; it still has that pesky stutter at the beginning of the event but when transcoded to 4K XAVC-I it's very smooth. Note that this all in 8bit.

I did test ACES, 32bit mode just for testing and it still crawls only, so does NeatVideo 5.0. However, rendering the Red Car Benchmark project with VCE was done in 15sec.

 

Proud owner of Sony Vegas Pro 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 & 13 and now Magix VP15&16.

System Spec.:
Motherboard: ASUS X299 Prime-A

Ram: G.Skill 4x8GB DDR4 2666 XMP

CPU: i7-9800x @ 4.6GHz (custom water cooling system)
GPU: 1x AMD Vega Pro Frontier Edition (water cooled)
Hard drives: System Samsung 970Pro NVME, AV-Projects 1TB (4x Intel P7600 512GB VROC), 4x 2.5" Hotswap bays, 1x 3.5" Hotswap Bay, 1x LG BluRay Burner

PSU: Corsair 1200W
Monitor: 2x Dell Ultrasharp U2713HM (2560x1440)

MelvinGonsalvez wrote on 7/16/2019, 6:15 PM

VP16:  Test 4K PRJ Render - (Basic file setup with linear placed files on timeline and 4s overlaps)
Source Files: 10 Sony AX100 clips, UHD format @ 30fps, stereo, ranging from 54MB to 1.33GB in size.
Output File Render Format: Sony XAVC/SAVC S,  XAVC Intra 3840x2160 29.97p
Final Render Time & Size: 8m 21s, 16.1GB

Prj Pre-Render System Specs:
- CPU 1%  (VP @ normal priority thread)
- Memory 14GB/31.7
- GPU O: 1%
- GPU 1: 2%
- PreWindow: Best (Auto)
- 8 bit pixel format, ACES 1.0, Best rendering quality, guassian blur
- file output: 3840x2160, 29.970 NTSC
- audio: 48Khz, 24 bit, best resample

Prj Render System Specs:
- CPU: 73%-83% (4.19Ghz speed, base speed 3.5Ghz, L1 cache = 768KB, L2 = 12MB, L3 = 19.3MB, cores = 12, logical processors = 24)
- Mem: 14GB-15GB
- GPU 0: 7%-9%
- GPU 1: 3%
- Previes Window setting: 839x472x32
- PRJ Render Start: Tuesday 7/16/19, @ 1:19pm
- PRJ Render Status @ 1:25 (45% complete, 7:37min left; @ 1:30pm 86% complete, 1:37min left)
- PRJ Render Complete @ 1:32pm = 13m 54s render time.

- File Playback Specs: (@ full screen UHD - CompuClever Ultra File Opener)
- 3840x2160, h264/AVC/MPEG-4 AVC
- Audio codec: pcm 16bit
- VP (in Ultra File Opener GUI showing as Product Version 13 (???, I'm rendering this on v16)
- CPU: 14% @4.14Ghz
- Mem: 15GB
- GPU 0: 12%
- GPU 1: 20%

I'll try much more complicated builds with PiP, etc. when I get a chance and post those results.

JoeAustin wrote on 7/16/2019, 6:22 PM

Still nothing to the experience with that processor?

Melvin was nice enough to share, but admittedly, his experience is limited with VP. There must be some experienced Vegas Pro users who have migrated to an i9 out there? Especially looking to hear if multi camera 4K is possible without proxies. It's more like a Powerpoint presentation at the moment.

Two things.

1. I am not sure if I would consider myself experienced enough but I do use Vegas since Sony Vegas Pro 7.

2. I don't have a i9-9920x but rather opted for the i7-9800x for my recent build (see my signature); I didn't see much advantage in the additional 2 cores for almost double the price.

I can do 4 cam multicam with 4K XAVC-S from AX700 and a6300; it still has that pesky stutter at the beginning of the event but when transcoded to 4K XAVC-I it's very smooth. Note that this all in 8bit.

I did test ACES, 32bit mode just for testing and it still crawls only, so does NeatVideo 5.0. However, rendering the Red Car Benchmark project with VCE was done in 15sec.

I am also considering the I7-9800, so this is good to know. I have not been able to get any transcode of 4K to be useable in multicam no matter the transcode. Seems the upgrade is in the cards. Thanks for the info.

 

 

MelvinGonsalvez wrote on 7/16/2019, 6:48 PM

Cont'd:

In Preferences Dynamic Ram was set at 200, Max. rendering threads @ 4, GPU acceleration set for nVidia GF RTX (I have two such cards running in nVlink).

The playback in the viewport at Best auto and 839x472x32 was very smooth throughout almost all the timeline but at a specific place in two different scenes where a vertical pan was being done (all fluid-head tripod shots) there was a slight, but very tolerable image hesitation/stutter that lasted a second or so.

As a reminder, my Win 64 OS is on a 512GB SSD, VP16 is on a 1TB SSD, the 10 UHD project files used are on a separate 1TB SSD, and I rendered out to a 2TB SATA drive. I had not run disk performance on these SSDs before starting this project and I have a lot of other files on the project file SSD too.

The video content consisted of a horizontal 180 degree pan of Seattle's skyline, a music prof playing "Take 5" on a standup piano, another music prof playing "Classical Gas" on a five string acoustic guitar, a ceramics prof sculpting clay, along with floral scenic files and the playback speed of the instrumental clips mentioned matched the audio heard without any noticeable lag.

MelvinGonsalvez wrote on 7/16/2019, 7:32 PM

Update, Cont'd:

Changed Project Properties to:
- Pixel format: 32-bit floating point (full range)
- ACES version: 1.0
- ACES color space: Default (ACES2065-1)
- Best rendering quality (setting as before)
- Audio: Sample rate: 96Khz, 24 bit depth, Best resample


- Project timeline playback specs after these changes:
- CPU utilization now shot up to between 54% to 61%
- GPU 0: 7%, GPU 1: 3%

The same clips on this timeline played back just as smoothly as before (with the same two brief image hesitations mentioned previously) so I'll try to render the same project out with this new ACES setting and see what the render time difference might be.

Wolfgang S. wrote on 7/17/2019, 2:00 AM

Update, Cont'd:

Changed Project Properties to:
- Pixel format: 32-bit floating point (full range)
- ACES version: 1.0
- ACES color space: Default (ACES2065-1)
- Best rendering quality (setting as before)
- Audio: Sample rate: 96Khz, 24 bit depth, Best resample


- Project timeline playback specs after these changes:
- CPU utilization now shot up to between 54% to 61%
- GPU 0: 7%, GPU 1: 3%

The same clips on this timeline played back just as smoothly as before (with the same two brief image hesitations mentioned previously) so I'll try to render the same project out with this new ACES setting and see what the render time difference might be.


ACES seems to be one of the most performance demanding workflows that we have in Vegas, but you have to enable a transformation. The most important issue is the drop in the playback behaviour when you enable a Color Transformation for example to PQ or rec709, if you grade for example UHD slog or vlog footage and run an HDR workflow. Ok, something that will require some experience really.

In such a scenario I see with my older 8core i7 5960X overclocked to more the 4 GHz such a drop in the preview Performance that I have to go to the preview settings preview/quaterly. And even here I see 5-7 fps only.

I do not care so much about Rendering, since here it is not necessary to sit beside the machine. But to edit the footage requires some Minimum Playback behaviour - that is why I care about that.