Comments

CClub wrote on 11/18/2006, 10:02 AM
For those of you who use FCP: what's the learning curve compared to Vegas? Next time I upgrade my system, I'm looking to buy a Mac so I could use Vegas (via bootcamp) for my independent projects and FCP when collaborating on a project with my Mac friends.
GlennChan wrote on 11/18/2006, 10:40 PM
FCP may seem weird since its a different mindset than Vegas. I recommend picking up some training materials for FCP so you learn FCP the right/FCP way. Don't force it to behave like Vegas.

*I learned FCP first, and found Vegas to be weird. I believe the opposite applies.

2- The Apple Pro Training series book for Final Cut Pro has the taste of medicine, but it's good for you. It shows you the various ways of doing things in FCP. If you are familiar with editing, then that book really helps you learn FCP in the sense that you can cut stuff a lot faster on it.
Coursedesign wrote on 11/18/2006, 11:22 PM
Worley,

I sympathize with you having to pay Apple UK prices for everything, with Apple UK service spirit to go with that...

I can't imagine Macs suddenly being less reliable in Europe though.

I gave up on Macs many years ago, when OS7 came out I thought there was just way too much BS to get Internet to work compared to Windows, so I switched.

Over the last few years I have had many opportunities to grit my teeth though, as I was working with other pros, about 95% of whom were using FCP. I got pretty good at conversions, but they were always worried that something wouldn't be quite right.

This spring when the Intel-based MacBook Pros came out, I bit immediately. Fabulous hardware in every way. Then Apple offered upgrades from last year's FCP to the complete $1200 Final Cut Studio package for $99. I bought a used FCP from a local editor and upgraded it for a total cost of about $600. This upgrade is still available, and there are still old FCPs on eBay.

I find OS X to be very solid. No comparison with OS9 and its pre-Unix brethren that I found to be horribly unstable.
TLF wrote on 11/19/2006, 2:01 AM
To be balanced (which I like to be) I had a friend who used nothing but Macs. And not one of them has broken down.

He had one PC (acting as a server) which burst into flames one night and nearly burnt the house down. Fortunately he had a smoke alarm fitted.

I've no doubt that Macs are reliable for some people, but for me not. Likewise, PCs are to be avoided by some people!

So many Mac resellers have gone bust in the UK, so I would only consider buying one when Apple opens up... perhaps when the Mac OS is freely available and will work on ANY Intel/AMD machine, not just those from Apple.

But that's just a dream...

Worley
Sonisfear wrote on 11/19/2006, 3:50 PM
Wow I never expected this post to be so heated....

Its funny just jump into the forum for the first time since I originally posted this thread.

Okay so I got my MACPRO with FCPS and man is the mac sweet. The esthetic design is awesome and the machine is awesome. I have been trying to learn FCP and it is much harder than using Vegas. I will be taking courses soon. Having said that it is very pro and very powerful. Just using the titler i was able to know out the most slickest intros I have ever made with just fooling around.

I must say that Vegas has spoiled me with the gui. Vegas gui just makes sense.

So realizing that I am not going to be able to learn FCPS in a few weeks and need to get work done I install boot camp which allows me to use both windows and OSX on the MACPRO and wow.

Windows has never run this good before.

I have and am selling a dual xeon 2.4 and a quad opteron pc and this MACpro destroys them. Finally I can run vegas the way I want to. with full screen preview (preview level) and render with reasonable render times.

Okay Hardware wise the MACPRO rocks and it isn't as expensive as mac were known to be.

So truly I am in the best of both worlds right now with FCPS and Vegas at the tips of my fingures.
[r]Evolution wrote on 11/19/2006, 8:16 PM
The FCP GUI makes sense if you learned Editing via Conventional Methods. (school, internships. etc) It's the 'normal' editing method. Vegas was the first NLE that changed up the way you edit. That's why a lot of Industry Professionals stay away from it. It's hard to convince a guy that has been editing on Avid, Premiere, FCP, etc. for many years... to all of a sudden swap over to Vegas. That's why you hear people saying that once they saw the interface they didn't go any further.

I do not YET have a Mac Pro... I still have my Dual Processor G5 w/FCP Studio & AJA IO. I am gonna wait a while before I bite the bullet. Mac is known for coming with something new every year and discontinuing the old. I like the way the Mac Pro is OSX & XP Compatible... but I'm gonna wait and let everyone work out all the bugs.

Oh yeah... if you're looking for jobs... guarantee you'll have better luck if you know FCP Studio as apposed to Vegas+DVDA. Naturally, if you work on your own or you're a hobbyist... Vegas is just fine.
jkrepner wrote on 11/20/2006, 7:42 AM
Sonis,

I would whole heartedly recommend lynda.com for learning FCP (and I'd image any other A/V application--even Vegas). It's $25 per month and you can watch as many tutorials as you want on any app you can imagine (including LiveType, Motion, DVD Studio). The nice thing is that each section is divided by smaller sub-sections. That way you can just watch the ones you really need and skip some of the more basic stuff. However, I'm trying to do/watch all of them because there are so many great keyboard short cuts to learn and lots of little time saving work flow tips that really make the difference. If you learn the keyboard shortcuts you can work in FCP as fast as you can in Vegas--for the most part. I'd recommend setting up a laptop or 2nd computer to run the tutorials rather than try and edit and watch tutorials all on one computer.
BrianStanding wrote on 11/20/2006, 10:03 AM
I think the idea of "Apple snobs" may be related to the cost of Apple equipment. It's always been 1.5 to 2 times the price of equivalently-equipped PC hardware. And until Apple switched to Intels, the PC's were always faster. It's not like Apples are impervious to breakdwons, either. All my editing friends in town are using Macs, and they all seem plagued by mysterious "hard drive problems." They all just assume these are a routine part of doing business. I tell them I've had exactly one hard drive failure in over 10 years and they just give me cow-like stares and quickly change the subject.

The new Mac Core 2 Duo Intel laptops are $4,000! Even the top of the line Sony VAIOs are only around $2,500! Is it really worth $1500-2000 for a cute logo and one less mouse button?
Coursedesign wrote on 11/20/2006, 10:56 AM
Brian,

I'm sure it is possible to find comparisons either way, but many independent reviewers in 2006 have found a cost difference for comparable systems of -25% to +25% for Mac vs. PC models. I paid $2,000 for my MacBook Pro at a time when there wasn't really anything like it on the PC side either.

I think the older versions of OS X (and certainly their pre-Unix OS versions) were not that reliable. This was the source of a lot more trouble than the hardware.

For learning FCP keyboard shortcuts, I like KB Covers.

These are overlays that are available for different keyboards and notebooks. 9-color printing on silicone (same material as fake boobs, mmm... :O) Thin, durable, easy to take off and put back on again when editing, they also shield against dust.

Did I mention they really are nice to work with? :O)

BrianStanding wrote on 11/20/2006, 11:30 AM
O.K., I stand corrected. I took a quick gander at pricewatch and see what you mean. The Mac Book Pro's and Sony VAIO notebooks actually look pretty comparable in price. Apple looks like they've dropped their prices a bit since they've switched to Core 2 Duo's.

I still think the image of an "Apple snob" still comes from Apple's traditionally higher prices.

It seems like, with Apples now running on Intel chips, there will be even less incentive to port software to the Mac OS. After all, if it can run on Apple hardware through Boot Camp, why bother?
jkrepner wrote on 11/20/2006, 11:54 AM
With all of that being said: I really do wish I could run Vegas (under OSX) on my Mac and I wish somehow that Vegas could be tightly integrated with Motion and Live Type.

Coursedesign wrote on 11/20/2006, 12:40 PM
It is probably too much work to do that with Vegas 7, because it is still stuck with the ancient Video for Windows architecture (which unfortunately may have been their only practical choice as I explained in a previous post).

With Vegas 8 they would have a chance to break free of that, and then it might be possible to make it work on both Vista and OS X, the latter perhaps without official support but still working very well and indeed communicating with the clean and simple Motion and LiveType APIs.
Sonisfear wrote on 11/20/2006, 6:06 PM
"With all of that being said: I really do wish I could run Vegas (under OSX) on my Mac and I wish somehow that Vegas could be tightly integrated with Motion and Live Type."

I second tis motion...Jess guys I am not joking when I say Vegas is smoking on this MACPRO. The last time I posted something in this thread I was actuall running files through the gigabit network becuae I could not be bothered to trnasfer all of that video from my quad amd amd it was blazing.

Now I simply rmoved a few drives and placed it into the MACPRO. First of all the drive bay design is fricken awesome.

2nd holy kroly...you should see the way this thing plows through HDV and cineforms 3.22 avi files. An assemble edit without any major filters seems to be rendering faster than real time.

a 1 hour 14 min clip render in 46 miniutes.

Now I finally have the system that I can function with (crossing my fingures)

So why do I still wish that Vegas ports a appple version because from what I see the apple os is still more effiencient with 2.5 million lines of code rather than 9 million lines of code with windows. and the apples Os is structured for A/V.

I think Vegas will truly be a nasty fast NLE on that platform.

I have heard that the MACPRO unlike previous macs are upgradable so unofficially like the test I post from CNET states the MACPRO cpus are upgradable when the intel quade core come out. it is just the design of the chip, the price tha Apple had to pay with switching to intel.

Guess who will be first inline for those chips.

So Sony if you do port to apple or make version 8 please keep octette processing in mind.