Artifacts in Videos

Kloverton wrote on 11/18/2022, 12:30 PM

Hey lads, some time ago I posted the problem, that I can't render out 8K video, cause vegas just stucks, with all possible fixes tried, I had to render 2-3 second pieces, in order to somehow finish the project. These time around a new cool feature was added - artifacts. I get different ghosting or some sort of that, of different partens from the frame. It's just getting out of control. The footage itself is fine and tried in different software. Now it's not only the problem to somehow finish and render the project, now it also screws up the footage with artifacts. That's not acceptable in any way. I got the latest build of VP 20. - i9 10980XE, RTX 3090, 128GB Ram, win 11 latest build.

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.

Comments

john_dennis wrote on 11/18/2022, 4:01 PM

@Kloverton

Is there a special reason that your project properties are interlaced?

3POINT wrote on 11/18/2022, 8:58 PM

Besides the interlaced project settings, judging 8k media in a 1948x1098 sized preview window is not optimal despite the best/full preview settings of the preview.

Kloverton wrote on 11/18/2022, 11:04 PM

@Kloverton

Is there a special reason that your project properties are interlaced?

It's at None usually, I was just trying different things to render the video out. Artifacts are still there in any mode.

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.

Kloverton wrote on 11/18/2022, 11:08 PM

I've put the render over night, after I did these post, and here I'am again, Just Stuck.

Last changed by Kloverton on 11/18/2022, 11:09 PM, changed a total of 1 times.

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.

Yelandkeil wrote on 11/19/2022, 12:02 AM

The footage itself is fine and tried in different software. 

1.
The footage is NOT fine.
25/30fps has never been video motion frequencies, that's why till fullHD the ancient interlace technique still remained (50/60 fields per sec.) - Don't argue but remember:
Film's 24p is playing back in 48 or even 72 picture per sec.
For video from 4k UHD and above the framerate must be at least 50 frames per sec.
If you don't obey you must suffer jittering, e.g. those small decals on the skirt.

Rendered 8k60p shows in Pause again, there's no ghost pattern or other artifacts (though UHD should take the 10bit Rec2020 definition). The seeming ghost (actually it's jerky) comes from its original 30fps - An optical flow post editing would resolve the problem, but it's 8k...

2.
Why is your UI yellowish?
Do you know your footage is an Log-file?
Why don't you use monitoring tools by editing?
How's the editing going, proxy? Swap?

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 11/19/2022, 12:15 AM, changed a total of 3 times.

-- Hard&Software for 5.1RealHDR10 --

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
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*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3915; Direct3D: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto/manual
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

RogerS wrote on 11/19/2022, 12:14 AM

Other renders with known good media, etc. work fine, right?

What do you think the problem is caused by? Is it only a problem with 8K renders?

Kloverton wrote on 11/19/2022, 1:12 AM

Other renders with known good media, etc. work fine, right?

What do you think the problem is caused by? Is it only a problem with 8K renders?

It happens only with 8k, cause its h 265

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.

Kloverton wrote on 11/19/2022, 1:18 AM

The footage itself is fine and tried in different software. 

1.
The footage is NOT fine.
25/30fps has never been video motion frequencies, that's why till fullHD the ancient interlace technique still remained (50/60 fields per sec.) - Don't argue but remember:
Film's 24p is playing back in 48 or even 72 picture per sec.
For video from 4k UHD and above the framerate must be at least 50 frames per sec.
If you don't obey you must suffer jittering, e.g. those small decals on the skirt.

Rendered 8k60p shows in Pause again, there's no ghost pattern or other artifacts (though UHD should take the 10bit Rec2020 definition). The seeming ghost (actually it's jerky) comes from its original 30fps - An optical flow post editing would resolve the problem, but it's 8k...

2.
Why is your UI yellowish?
Do you know your footage is an Log-file?
Why don't you use monitoring tools by editing?
How's the editing going, proxy? Swap?

Footage is clearly fine, cause i don't get those ghosting artifacts on davinci or media player or in camera. I know it's log, i is it to colour grade. It's s log 3. Proxy is use, otherwise it loads each frame on timeline on preview for 15 seconds at least.

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.

EricLNZ wrote on 11/19/2022, 2:06 AM

Film's 24p is playing back in 48 or even 72 picture per sec

Are you talking about old physical film being projected? If so while you may see 48 or 72 pictures per second with two and three bladed shutters you still only see 24 different image frames per second. The frames are duplicated/triplicated to avoid flickering.

 

RogerS wrote on 11/19/2022, 2:34 AM

I'm trying to replicate the issue though I don't have any 8K footage on hand so I'm using 4K. If you have an 8K clip I could borrow I'd use that.

For render settings, can you share exactly what you are using? Also project settings? I tried Mainconcept and got no artifacts. Then NVENC and no artifacts.

Video frame rate, project frame rate and render framerate do match so I wouldn't expect ghosting.

In 32-bit video and full mode I get weird artifacts for a reason I don't know but it shows up on playback, too.

I removed the clip and then added the 8K clip I had rendered (well, 4K rendered to 8K) on an 8K timeline. I put it to 32-bit full and used a transform for Canon log. No artifacts this time. The render gave my GPU somewhat of a workout (decoding is on the Intel iGPU).

I didn't see obvious flaws in the rendered file (8K HEVC with NVENC).

Yelandkeil wrote on 11/19/2022, 2:54 AM

 

If you say the ghost artifacts/patterns in the red circle, it's something like noise statics which I haven't observed during my editing and my rendered video also doesn't have it.
Here's my 8k-output, transcoded into fullHD30p, background clean but skirt decal jittering.

@EricLNZ, yes.
And that shutter trick worked well, though there were photographer also filmed in 48p.
Our digi-videos can't copy that trick, its fullframe but halffrequncy (25/30fps) plays always jerky if motion goes heavily. Only in small dimensions it's not so critical, but with 8k and compact decals on that skirt...

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 11/19/2022, 2:59 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

-- Hard&Software for 5.1RealHDR10 --

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3915; Direct3D: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto/manual
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

Kloverton wrote on 11/19/2022, 3:36 AM

 

If you say the ghost artifacts/patterns in the red circle, it's something like noise statics which I haven't observed during my editing and my rendered video also doesn't have it.
Here's my 8k-output, transcoded into fullHD30p, background clean but skirt decal jittering.

@EricLNZ, yes.
And that shutter trick worked well, though there were photographer also filmed in 48p.
Our digi-videos can't copy that trick, its fullframe but halffrequncy (25/30fps) plays always jerky if motion goes heavily. Only in small dimensions it's not so critical, but with 8k and compact decals on that skirt...

Those artifacts appear in couple of shots, not all of them. I will drop the file here in 8 hours, once I get home from the shoot

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.

RogerS wrote on 11/19/2022, 4:33 AM

Thanks Todd- will download that. I think I did before but had to clear it off my laptop SSD when it got full.

Kloverton, any guidance on project and render settings and I'll try to replicate.

Yelandkeil wrote on 11/19/2022, 4:44 AM

@Kloverton, CPU overclocked?

Maybe, that's the reason of ghost pattern.

 

@RogerS, if you don't mind, your using ACES/sRGB mode, not 32-bit mode.

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 11/19/2022, 4:49 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

-- Hard&Software for 5.1RealHDR10 --

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3915; Direct3D: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto/manual
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

RogerS wrote on 11/19/2022, 4:49 AM

That's not right. I tested ACES and with view transform off in 32-bit full, as well as 32-bit video which is not ACES. I don't know what settings the OP is using though.

Yelandkeil wrote on 11/19/2022, 5:09 AM

 

This is 32-bit full mode:

OK, never mind. Sorry.

Last changed by Yelandkeil on 11/19/2022, 5:11 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

-- Hard&Software for 5.1RealHDR10 --

ASUS TUF Gaming B550plus BIOS3202: 
*Thermaltake TOUGHPOWER GF1 850W 
*ADATA XPG GAMMIX S11PRO; 512GB/sys, 2TB/data 
*G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-64GFX 
*AMD Ryzen9 5950x + LiquidFreezer II-240 
*XFX Speedster-MERC319-RX6900XT <-AdrenalinEdition 24.12.1
Windows11Pro: 24H2-26100.3915; Direct3D: 9.17.11.0272

Samsung 2xLU28R55 HDR10 (300CD/m², 1499Nits/peak) ->2xDPort
ROCCAT Kave 5.1Headset/Mic ->Analog (AAFOptimusPack 6.0.9403.1)
LG DSP7 Surround 5.1Soundbar ->TOSLINK

DC-GH6/H-FS12060E_HLG4k120p: WB=manual, Shutter=125, ISO=auto/manual
HERO5_ProtuneFlat2.7k60pLinear: WB=4800K, Shutter=auto, ISO=800

VEGASPro22 + XMediaRecode/Handbrake + DVDArchi7 
AcidPro10 + SoundForgePro14.0.065 + SpectraLayersPro7 
K-LitecodecPack17.8.0 (MPC Video Renderer for HDR10-Videoplayback on PC) 

Kloverton wrote on 11/19/2022, 5:23 AM

@Kloverton, CPU overclocked?

Maybe, that's the reason of ghost pattern.

 

@RogerS, if you don't mind, your using ACES/sRGB mode, not 32-bit mode.

Yes, CPU is overcklocked, so as ram, was thinking about it yesterday, will try to create a profile with my overcklock, so i dont loose it, and will try to set bios to stock, to see if anything changes. The other thing, is that my CPU doesn't have built in iGpu, what probably makes situation even worse. I did try to render on my laptop, with i7 7820HK and GTX 1080Ti, but it didn't seem to do anything. I will post project settings and etc later tonight

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.

Kloverton wrote on 11/19/2022, 12:30 PM

 

This is 32-bit full mode:

OK, never mind. Sorry.

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.

john_dennis wrote on 11/19/2022, 1:37 PM

@Kloverton

Could you just humor @3POINT and me? Please scale your preview screen to a true 16x9 aspect ratio for your screenshots. Here's a list to make it easy for you. https://pacoup.com/2011/06/12/list-of-true-169-resolutions/

Here is a true 16x9 screenshot of a file I rendered from a previously uploaded Sony A1 sample.

 

Kloverton wrote on 11/19/2022, 2:11 PM

@Kloverton

Could you just humor @3POINT and me? Please scale your preview screen to a true 16x9 aspect ratio for your screenshots. Here's a list to make it easy for you. https://pacoup.com/2011/06/12/list-of-true-169-resolutions/

Here is a true 16x9 screenshot of a file I rendered from a previously uploaded Sony A1 sample.

 

How is doing the screenshot of my settings in 16:9 will resolve the problem?

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.

john_dennis wrote on 11/19/2022, 4:58 PM

@Kloverton

Have you tried using a CPU Only (decode and encode) with Voukoder?

Do you see any artifacts in this rendered file?

Voukoder HEVC CPU Only

RogerS wrote on 11/19/2022, 8:39 PM

Great, replicated your project settings (though surprised you're working in 8-bit with a 10-bit log file as that could lead to banding).

Now what about render settings? Here's my own 8K NVENC render using your project settings and default MagixHEVC render settings.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x9snovxl7cvh9op/8K%20Canon%20nvidia.mp4?dl=0

Kloverton wrote on 11/20/2022, 3:12 PM

@Kloverton

Have you tried using a CPU Only (decode and encode) with Voukoder?

Do you see any artifacts in this rendered file?

Voukoder HEVC CPU Only

Voukoder doesnt work at all, no matter what format I use, it just renders straight away in a second and nothing happens.

Vegas Pro 20 Build 411, Windows 11 PRO, Intel Core i9 10980XE (4.9Ghz all cores) with Direct Die and Luquid Metal + EK Waterblock, RTX 4090 EK Water Cooled, 128GB DDR4 G.Skill 3800Mhz, Samsung 980 Pro 2TBx4, Asus Rog Rampage VI Extreme Omega, Creative SoundBlaster X5, Elgato 4K 60 Pro x2, Seasonic Prime TX 1600W Titanium. Custom EK Water Cooling, with Direct Die and Liquid Metal, 420mm EK Radiator 45mm thick, 2x 360 EK Radiators, 45mm thick, D5 Revo Pump. 12X Noctua Coolers, four of those are 140mm, others 120mm.