Audio Anomaly with Vegas 10D and Sony HDR--TD10

tnw2933 wrote on 5/14/2011, 1:51 PM
I have been trying to edit some 3D clips from my new Sony HDR-TD10 (MVC format) in Vegas 10d on my PC. When I play these clips back on the timeline they look great, but the audio has a recurring clackety-clack overlay (sounds like a train running over the rails). Furthermore, when I render the project to a 3D Blu-ray it plays beautifully on my Sony VPL-VW90ES projector from my Sony 3D Blu-ray player, but the clackety-clack is right there on the audio.

Here are some other pertinent facts. The audio problem is being produced in Vegas 10d and is not present when I play the clips back from the camcorder itself via its HDMI hookup to my home theater. In fact, the sound is beautiful in full 5.1 Dolby Digital. There are absolutely no audio anomalies.

When I play the clips back from Sony's PMB software (shipped with the Sony HDR-TD10) on the same PC that I have Vegas 10d installed, they sound perfect, but the minute I send those to Vegas 10d (even from within the PMB software) and play them back in Vegas 10d, I get the clackety-clack anomaly.

I have tried everything I know to rectify the situation including uninstalling all previous versions of Vegas software on my PC, uninstalling Vegas 10d, using JV16 Power Tools to clean my registry and optimize my PC, and then reinstalling Vegas 10d. None of this made any difference.

Furthermore, the problem is specific to the HDR-10D clips in Vegas 10d. When I open an older Vegas project (HDV footage), it plays back perfectly with no audio anomaly.

Thanks for reading this. I am desperate for any ideas that anyone might have to solve this problem. I really want to edit the 3D output form the Sony HDR-10D.

Thank you.



tnw2933 wrote on 5/14/2011, 3:08 PM
I have now installed Vegas 10.0d on a second PC running Windows XP SP3 (same as the original PC discussed above) and I can report that the exact same audio anomaly is present in the timeline playback of a freshly imported clip from the Sony HDR-TD10 playback.

I believe this audio problem is a bug in the way the Vegas 10d is decoding the audio from these clips. It may or may not be specific to Windows XP. I don't have a version of Windows 7 to try.

Rob Franks wrote on 5/14/2011, 3:34 PM
I've been playing with some TD10 files as well and do not have this issue. What sound drivers and sound card are you using? Do you have the project properties properly set for 5.1 audio?
tnw2933 wrote on 5/14/2011, 7:00 PM

Many thanks for responding. Please tell me if you are using the 10D files in Vegas10d running under Windows 7 or what OS?

As I mentioned above, I have tried these clips on two different PC's with entirely different sound cards, processors, memory, etc. and I see the identical clickety-clack noise crap on both PC's when they play back the 10D clips on the Vegas 10d timeline. Yes, I do have the project properties set for 5.1 audio.

Rob Franks wrote on 5/14/2011, 8:08 PM
I'm running windows 7(64), Vegas 10D(32), ASIO2 drivers with a X-FI elite pro soundcard. My soundcard is set for 48khz as are the project settings in Vegas.

Are you noticing this sound on all channels?
tnw2933 wrote on 5/14/2011, 8:25 PM

Again, thanks for your help.

Yes, the repetitive noise does appear on all channels (with the possible exception of the LFE channel where it may be present but if so is a lower level). The noise is quite noticeable on all other channels.

Just for fun I brought one of these clips into DVD Architect 5.2 and listened to the stereo remix and it sounded fine. I am hearing this noise crap only in Vegas. I also have brought these clips into Sony PMB software and they play fine there with perfect audio. I am at my wits end on this problem in Vegas. I have checked every audio setting I can think of.

If you have any other suggestions, I would be most appreciative.

This may be a Windows XP problem, but I cannot confirm that.

Rob Franks wrote on 5/14/2011, 8:43 PM
If it's noticed on all channels and repetitive to a tune then I would have to say it sounds like a clocking noise of some kind.
Have you made sure your sample rate in project settings is the same as what your soundcard is running at?

Do you have METRONOME unchecked in options?
Rob Franks wrote on 5/14/2011, 8:46 PM
"This may be a Windows XP problem, but I cannot confirm that. "

Yes... if I remember correctly XP is not supported. I also know that there are HUGE differences in the way XP handles audio as compared to the newer OS's
tnw2933 wrote on 5/15/2011, 5:10 AM

Again many thanks for your useful suggestions.

I will have to see if I have Metronome unchecked in options. I really don't know if I do or not, but I will check this out.

You are quite right in saying that this sounds exactly like clocking noise of some point. It is evenly repetitive with a certain periodicity, but it occurs only in Vegas 10d and only with clips from my HDR--TD10.

My sample rate in project settings has always been set at the correct 48 kHz which is correct for the footage from the TD10.

I'll check on the metronome setting and see if that is the issue, and I'll post back when I know.

Thank you again.

tnw2933 wrote on 5/15/2011, 5:12 AM

I forgot to add that under the specifications for Vegas Pro 10 on the Sony Creative Software web site, they do indicate that Windows XP SP3 which is what I have is supported.

Rob Franks wrote on 5/15/2011, 6:56 AM
What sound card and driver are you using?

Try resetting your project properties for normal stereo, importing a clip and see if you get the same problem. Then at least we can determine if this is/isnot a 5.1 issue with your sound card.
pwppch wrote on 5/15/2011, 8:50 AM
I doubt this is a audio hardware issue since the OP states that the rendered audio from Vegas also has the problem. Render does NOT use the audio hardware unless you are using Real-time rendering.

Still, I'd like to know:

- audio hardware used
- driver model used ; ASIO, mapper, Surround Mapper, Wave Classic
- routing for surround master bus
- are you using any audio FX anywhere in the project - be specific as to what and where.

Also, what rendering settings are you using for audio?

What is the audio format/media type as reported by Vegas?

The more specific detail provided, the better.

pwppch wrote on 5/15/2011, 8:51 AM
One thing to try: turn off track buffering in the audio device preference page.

tnw2933 wrote on 5/15/2011, 9:25 AM
Please let me thank everyone who has read and tried to help me with their replies. It is most appreciated.

I think I am beginning to get a better handle on what is happening with these TD10 clips in Vegas 10d.

I have been working with the first four clips that I shot with my HDR-TD10. The first three clips were shot in our living room and were shots of my wife playing with our cat. There is only a little talking on those clips and no other recorded sound. For the 4th clip I set the TD10 on a tripod about 3-4 feet from my grand piano and sat down and played a piece while the camera recorded the scene. I had first reported that all 4 clips had shown the noise anomaly problem, but upon much closer listening to the clips in Vegas 10d, I now can confirm that only the 4th clip (the recording of the piano) has this clackety-clack sound overlaid on the audio on playback. The output of the audio on all tracks for that clip is much much higher than the other three clips.

My current theory is that I overloaded the mic input on the Sony HDR-TD10 when I shot that scene and that this is producing the anomalous noise in Vegas. What I don't understand is why I don't hear the problem at all on playback of the clip from my camcorder via HDMI to my Sony A/V receiver and on my 7.1 surround system. I also don't hear the noise anomaly when I play the piano clip back in the Sony PMB software on the same PC that I have Vegas 10d installed on. I have even brought that piano clip into the timeline of DVD Architect 5.2 on the same PC and it plays back with no audible problems. I only hear the audio anomaly when played back in the Vegas timeline and only on this clip.

As a final check, I have a demo clip that Sony recorded to my HDR-10D and I have brought it into the Vegas 10d timeline. It is a 5.1 surround clip in 3D, but I notice when I bring it on to the Vegas timeline that only two of the tracks have audio and it is not the audio recorded by the camera but an audio that Sony has overlaid. Nonetheless, this clip on playback in Vegas 10d does not have any audio problems.

I don't believe this is an audio hardware problem, and I no longer believe that this is a bug in Vegas 10d, but I would still like to get to the bottom of what is causing the problem in Vegas 10d.

To determine that, I am going to re-record that clip with the camera in the same position but with the audio in the camera set to "low" rather than "normal" which is the default setting to try and not overload the HDR-TD10's internal mic. I'll then see how Vegas 10d handles that clip.

Peter, thank you for responding and here are the answers to your questions:

(1) The audio that I am using is the on board audio from my Asus P5WDG2 WS Professional Workstation motherboard. To get the driver model I'll have to turn on the PC, but I can do that and supply it later. I don't know where to get the ASIO. I have tried all three sound mappers and it makes no difference. All three work but all three produce the same audio anomaly with this clips in Vegas 10d.

(2) I am not using any effects at all anywhere in this project, not even any transitions and certainly no audio effects.

(3) The project's audio is set to 48 kHz and 5.1 surround which is what clip properties reports the TD10 clips as being. When I rendered the project to Blu-ray I simply used the project's settings and changed nothing.

(4) The format media type reported by Vegas is (working from memory as I am not on my editing PC as I write) AVC (1920 X 1080), 48 kHz, 5.1 AC3 surround.

I'll try turning off track buffering in the audio device preference page.

My main concern is to understand what caused this audio anomaly so I can prevent it form happening in future recording with the Sony HDR-TD10 when I edit the footage in Vegas 10d.

tnw2933 wrote on 5/15/2011, 9:59 AM
Here is the information on my sound system gleaned form Device Manager. The integrated sound system on the Asus motherboard is called SoundMAX Integrated Digital HD Audio by Analog Devices. The driver is reported to be enabled and functioning properly. The driver is version

tnw2933 wrote on 5/17/2011, 4:35 PM
Here is an update on this audio issue with Vegas 10d and the Sony HDR-TD10 3D camcorder.

I have installed Vegas 10d now on an 8-core workstation with a fresh install of Windows 7 Professional 64 bit and nothing else installed on the computer. This is an 8X2.8 GHz system with a GTX 285 video card.

I continue to hear distortion of percussive and reasonably high level sounds (like recording a piano with the 10D). This occurs with any sudden moderately loud sound and it is audible only when playing back the footage in Vegas 10d. I do not hear the distortion or cracking sound just before a percussive sound on playback of the MVC clips through my Sony A/V receiver in my home theater, nor do I hear it on the playback of the MVC clips through the camcorders speakers.

Before others jump in who own the TD10 and Vegas 10d and say they do not have the problem, let me add that 99% of my clips are free of this crack of distortion just before a moderately loud percussive sound, but let a plane fly overhead, or talk loudly near the camcorder and you will hear the distortion I am talking about on playback in Vegas 10d. At least one other TD10 owner tells me he is also hearing this when playing back the clips in Vegas 10d.

Note the following. I have reduced the gain on all tracks in Vegas. That does not make the distortion go away until I reach a volume level so low the clip is inaudible. I have tried all possible audio settings on the TD10 for my recording of the piano. All produce the same distortion audible only in Vegas 10d.

I have replicated the problem on three different PC's running Vegas 10d. All produce exactly the same type of distortion or cracking noise just before a percussive sound of moderate level.

I believe the problem IS in Vegas 10d, and I hope Sony Creative Software will investigate and solve the problem. I'll be happy to post a clip if SCS wishes and will tell me where to send it.

Steve Mann wrote on 5/17/2011, 9:18 PM
I am seeing a LOT of guesses, but I haven't heard the problem. Can you upload a sample?

I once received a frantic call from our PEG station manager. They were setting up for a live meeting broadcast and had a terrible hum that they could not get rid of. They were swapping out cables, extension cords, cameras, anything they could think of. As I was putting on my jacket to drive to the location I talked to the producer by cellphone and we went over everything I could think of that could cause hum. How loud was it? They said that it was really loud. It's all they could hear at the studio end. They had called the cable company to check their cable from the remote to the studio, but they couldn't come until the next day. Talk about panic mode.

Anyway, I get there about five-minutes before the shot was to go live.

So, what's the first thing I did? I got my headphones and plugged it into the audio board. No one at the location thought of listening to the hum themselves - they were depending on the manager in the studio reporting the hum over the feed. I identified the problem and fixed it in five seconds. Someone accidentally hit the 1kHz tone button on the mixer.

So, the moral here is, one man's hum is another man's tone.

Let's hear a sample of your issue.
DonLandis wrote on 5/17/2011, 11:14 PM
I constructed a series of test trials to zero in on the problem tonight.
The recording source is the HDR-10D with onboard mic system.

In summation- the conclusion is that the clicking sound shows up on all 3D video clips recorded with audio set to DD5.1 when played either in the trim window or on the timeline. The clicking sound is triggered by a sound event and is not requiring a max volume level to show up. It is triggered by a sound event vs. nothing when program sound is zero. Pink noise generates the clicking sound just as my voice speaking. Another reported to me that his piano generates the same click distortion on the piano notes. It shows up on all channels of the DD5.1 except it is difficult to detect in the LFE track. I tested the camcorder's hdmi output playing back the offending clips and this DD5.1 is clean and free of any distortion and clicking noise.

The tests I ran:

I set up 4 conditions of testing for camera settings and recorded in 2D and 3D with DD2.0 set and DD5.1 set. This gave me 16 trials to evaluate.
The 4 conditions were:
1. Mic level set to Normal
2. Mic Level set to Low
3. Condition 1. with Auto Intel set to off
4. Condition 2 with Auto Intel set to on

I could not detect any difference in the sound quality between 3 and 4
Sound level in Low was half that of Normal as a difference between 1 and 2.

Each of the 4 above was tested with:
1. 2D Video with DD2.0
2. 2D video with DD5.1
3. 3D video with DD2.0
4. 3D video with DD5.1

The results were consistent and indicated the only condition where the distortion clicks showed up was with the 3D DD5.1 when played within Vegas. The same video clips played back outside of Vegas from the camcorder direct via hdmi were clean and distortion free.

All Clips were all imported to the computer with the supplied PMB software.
Rendering of the offending clips does not rid the distortion. Shutting off Stereoscopic in the project properties does not remove the clicking distortion.
Same offending clips in Vegas played in PMB preview were all clean using the same computer hardware.

Based on these structured tests I concluded there is a distortion bug in Vegas 10d with respect to playback of DD5.1 audio on the 3D clips imported from the HDR-TD10.
tnw2933 wrote on 5/18/2011, 8:41 AM

Please see the post above by Don Landis. I have confirmed all of his observations. This audio crackling is a REAL problem in Vegas 10d with 5.1 audio recorded by the sony HDR-TD10. It is not a hum, it is audio distortion that sounds like repetitive crackling. I have reproduced it on three separate PC workstations. it occurs only in Vegas 10d timeline playback. it does not appear when playing back the sony HDR-10D 5.1 audio anywhere else (home theater system, camera's onboard stereo speakers system etc.). I had earlier stated that it was audible only on clips with moderately high level sounds, but Don is correct. Close listening to ALL of my clips recorded in 5,1 in Vegas shows the audio crackling problem.

I bought Vegas 10D specifically because of its ability to ingest and edit clips from the Sony HDR-TD10. I would really like to see SCS address this problem.

Steve Mann wrote on 5/18/2011, 7:32 PM
You must have completely missed the point of my story.

A dozen "professionals" were chasing their tails looking for a hum source, but no one ever listened to it - just relying on the producer in the studio saying "Still there".

The same goes for your vague description. So why don't you give us a sample to hear for ourselves?

Also, how are you connecting the camera to the theater system?

tnw2933 wrote on 5/19/2011, 8:54 AM

I did not miss the point of your reply. I just did not find it relevant to the issue that I have described.

I have filed a bug report on this with Sony. In that bug report, I have offered to send a sample clip to them which clearly shows the problem.

Sounds are difficult to describe, but I did not find my description "vague" as you did. . There are clips available now online for the HDR-TD10. You can find them using Google or by visiting the 3D section of the AVS Forum.

Steve Mann wrote on 5/19/2011, 11:53 AM
Yes, it's clear to you. and my producer was certain that she was hearing hum.
Rob Franks wrote on 5/19/2011, 3:06 PM
"I bought Vegas 10D specifically because of its ability to ingest and edit clips from the Sony HDR-TD10. I would really like to see SCS address this problem. "

Is there anyplace you can upload a sample of the areas you're seeing as a problem?

(I have a ten second sample from the TD10.... and I'm not hearing any issues at all)
SuperG wrote on 5/19/2011, 9:18 PM
I just did not find it relevant to the issue that I have described

Well, why bother posting here if the assistance of others is of no importance?

Without empiricism - all we're left with is cry-wolf.
tnw2933 wrote on 5/20/2011, 3:42 PM
Rob, SuperG, and Other Interested Parties:

If you go to this url ( ), you will find one file named piano.m2ts. Please download that file (it is less than 200 Mb) and consists of a one minute video shot in 3D and 5.1 DD surround with the Sony HDR-TD10 with the mic sensitivity on the "low" setting and the camera about 5 feet from the piano. This file clearly demonstrates the problem with 5.1 audio playback within Vegas of MVC files from the Sony HDR-TD10.

Some additional notes:

1. Make sure that you listen past the short narrative introduction to the piece. Most of the MVC clips that I have with only narration or ambient noise do not exhibit this audio distortion. However, percussive sounds like the piano or other sudden moderate level sounds clearly demonstrate the problem.

2. The audio distortion that you will clearly hear is NOT subtle.

3. This audio distortion does NOT occur when this exact same clip is played back in the camcorder or played back with the camcorder attached via HDMI to my Sony AV receiver feeding a high quality surround system. In both of these cases the sound is clean with NO distortion.

4. The problem can only be found in the Vegas 10d timeline playback, and furthermore this distortion ends up on a Blu-ray disc burned from the Vegas timeline.

5. When this same clip is played back in Sony's PMB software the audio is clean with no distortion.

This is a real problem and it is a Vegas 10d problem.