Authoring For Mass Duplication

MUTTLEY wrote on 2/24/2004, 3:24 PM

Alrighty, so here's a simple question that I could fear might become quite complex.

When it comes to making a DVD that will be mass duplicated, is the process different ? If you have a 1 1/2 hour or 2 hour vid I'm assuming it would be better for it to be on dual-layer DVD. Is DVDA even capable of producing something that you could turn over to a place that duplicates ? Not just for something lengthy but for shorter videos as well. Potential clients ask about duplicating and I'm just at a loss. I know I can produce/shoot/edit, but are they going to be on their own as far as authoring ?

Looking for some direction here.

- Ray

www.undergroundplanet.com

Comments

ScottW wrote on 2/24/2004, 4:29 PM

There's a number of companies; try google with a search of DVD Duplication.

Here's one site that had some good info on pricing and how you need to master: http://www.dvdreplication.com/

farss wrote on 2/24/2004, 8:57 PM

DVDs produced by DVDA are suitable for duplication, my client is in the process of running off 100s of copies now using the Primera Bravo duplicator.
Some replication houses will also accept DVDA disks as masters although the traditional approach was been to output to DLT tape or 920 nM glass masters. The later is the cheaper but still damn expensive. If you want to go to dual layer then as far as I know you need to use one of these methods in which case forget DVDA.

MUTTLEY wrote on 2/24/2004, 9:26 PM

Thanks guys.

I seem to recal that there is one burner that you can use to make a master ( whatever that exactly means ), but can't remember what it is. Don't know if ya have a clue what I'm talking about, but if ya do would love ta know. Been browsing for an hour and havent found a lead.

- Ray

www.undergroundplanet.com

MUTTLEY wrote on 2/24/2004, 9:49 PM

I think this is it:

www.

Please bear with me while I try to wrap my head around this whole process. So as I see it that drive will make a master that you can take anywhere and get duplicated and it will be pretty pristine quality. The limitation being that its still 4.7 gigs.

It appears as though you can get a DLT cheaper. But if DLT is just tape, you don't actually " author " the DVD with it do you ? Is it just for the content or the actual DVD ( ie menus etc ) ?

And where does glassmastering come into play ? And how can one do this from home ?

Promise I'll get a grip on this sooner or later.

- Ray

www.undergroundplanet.com

ScottW wrote on 2/25/2004, 5:32 AM

As I understand it (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I get something wrong), you do author the DLT. The info on the DLT is simply an ISO image of the DVD you want to create.

So you use an authoring program like DVDA, then just do the prepare step. There are utilities available that will then take the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders and create an ISO image that you then put on the DLT.

Glass mastering comes into play at the factory (don't try this at home). They take the DLT (or possibly the DVD-R produced with your expensive burner) and create a glass master that is then use to create the duplicates.

Basically the factory takes a glass disk, covers it with a photo-resist, then uses a laser to etch. The disk is then developed and the etched photo-resist is washed away (very similar to the process for making a printed circuit board). The resulting disk goes thru a "metallization" process where the disk is covered with nickle or a nickle alloy. After this the metal father, mothers and stampers are created (by a process called electroforming). The father is used to create the mother and the father can then become a stamper. Mothers are used to create additional stampers for large runs. The stampers go thru a finishing process and then are used to prepare the production DVD's.

The entire process requires rather tight controls, some sophisticated equipment and a clean room, so creating a glass master is something you're not likely to do at home.

--Scott

farss wrote on 2/25/2004, 6:06 AM

You're certainly right about the DLT tape. It's only a way to move the files, technically it could be any form of mass data storage, even just a hard disk, it was probably just that DLT tape is a fairly common data storage medium so it became the industry standard.

As for the 'master' DVDs, I'm a little confused as to the role they play, certainly until recently the replication facilities would only work from them. There's only one drive that'll burn then and it's around the USD 6,000 mark. I thought they are a physical replica of what was pressed. For a 9 Gb disk two of them were made, one for each layer. But I'm probably wrong there, the other reason I was given was they were used was so you just couldn't buy a commercial DVD and send it off to have 1,000 copies made!

ScottW wrote on 2/25/2004, 6:18 AM

The impression I've been getting from the web sites I've looked at is the Master DVD-R's aren't really masters at all, but are what's called a pre-master. The factory still needs to create the glass master.

The difference between a typical DVD-R writen by the <$200 burner and the pre-masters appears to be that the pre-master burners can touch (write) the read-in area on the media. A consumer DVD burner can't write to this area by design and because that portion of the disk is stamped with info as part of the disk creation process which is why you can purchse regular DVD-R's and special Authoring DVD-R's.

I don't know whether it's possible to have a factory create a DVD-9 from 2 DVD-R CMF pre-masters. The places I've looked at seem to only allow DLT for this. To do this I expect you'd just lift the size limits on the DVDA project (which it will let you do - or maybe that was another authoring utility) and create an ISO file larger than 4.7GB.

ScottW wrote on 2/25/2004, 7:43 AM

You know, I was just thinking that you may want to re-examine your assumption about the 1.5 to 2 hour video being better on a DVD-9 vs. a DVD-5 or DVD-R.

There's a thread in the video forum that discusses the max time issue, and it may be that depending on what source material you've got, etc. that you could fit everything on a DVD-R (or DVD-5).

--Scott

MUTTLEY wrote on 2/25/2004, 2:12 PM

Kool stuff kids, think I'm getting a grip on the process. Thanks for the edumacation !

So does anyone here have a DLT ? Have any recomendations ? And further, know which software can convert DVDA files to an ISO ( another thing I'm amazed DVDA doesnt have ).

- Ray

www.undergroundplanet.com

ScottW wrote on 2/25/2004, 5:57 PM

The more I look at this, the more I think there's a lot more to this than is obvious at first glance. I mean DVDlab will create an ISO image, but it may not be enough to just throw the image on a DLT. So, with that in mind...

1) you'd be better off buying a product that does what you want rather than teying to cobble something together
2) you might think about getting in contact with a specific replication company and talk to them about what you need and what they need.

If you're at the point where you can afford the $1000 or more for a run of DVD's and you're looking at multiple runs, then it's probably going to be worth investing in some decent software (and probably some hardware since I bet DLT drives are SCSI based).

One place I found that has mastering software is www.gearsoftware.com - the Gear Pro Mastering Edition looks like it will do what you want, but it's going to set you back $800 - small change to get it right the first time though.

You'll still need an authoring program, since all Gear Pro Mastering does is create what's needed from the VIDEO_TS/AUDIO_TS folders.

I'm sure there are other companies that make mastering software; maybe others can suggest some.

--Scott

PeterWright wrote on 2/25/2004, 7:47 PM

Before lashing out to buy a DLT recorder, Ray, ring a couple of local DVD replicators and ask them if they can create a master from a standard DVD-R or DVD+R. Many are doing this nowadays.

MUTTLEY wrote on 2/26/2004, 1:57 AM

Thanks ScottW, will look into that.

Peter, I'm sure they might for shorter projects, but if I'm doing a longer deal it seems like a waste to cram an 1 1/2 hour or more vid onto a 4.7 gig DVD when the option to have dual layer and higher quality DVD by bringing it in on DLT is out there. Feel free to correct me, I'm a newbie.

- Ray

www.undergroundplanet.com

ScottW wrote on 2/26/2004, 4:48 AM

I still think you need to do a test run to see if you get acceptable quality with a DVD-R or +R at 1.5 or 2 hours. I frequently create DVD's with 1.5 hours of video and the quality is fine.

You're talking about double the cost when you go to DVD-9 - not only in up front mastering costs, but in production costs.

A good multi-pass VBR encoder might be a better investment. CCE Basic will let you do 2 passes; they've also got a version of CCE that does more than 2 passes.

RBartlett wrote on 2/28/2004, 4:37 AM

Whilst you can tell DVD-A to create a DVD within even your limit set to 20GB. The DVD-9 spec isn't met. The layer change has rules regarding where it can occur (within a GOP and with the right largest proportion being on the base layer not the bonded, I think).

It doesn't mean that you can't create some or a large part of what you need within DVD-A. Something needs to encode to MPEG-2 for the chapters, and something needs to be constructed out of MPEG-2 (or MPEG-1) to make the menu.

Apart from the layers, the clipboard can carry your menu across to Photoshop from DVD-A. Your motion background/objects are also of some use if porting. However there must be some value in you doing your version of the disc in vegas+dvda on DVDR-5. Even if it gets reworked by contracting the replicator to do your authoring aswell. You've given them the shortest path to an end product that they know will please you. That has to be worth a discount from their full custom authoring tariff.

Once they've seen your DVDA version, they might get their full price when they offer you things you can't actually do with DVDA. All to the benefit of your project if not your pocket.

I'd say that ReelDVD, Encore and DWS2 are not relied on for too many DVD-9 masters. DLT support or not. Yes, the DLT is a special session write that contains a number of sections to aid the cutting. It is your VOB/IFO along with some CNC (computer numerical control) data, media-id and other factory control info etc. Not really just an MS-backup of your prepared files in a 'tar' format etc!

Perhaps more of this will be easier to visualise when dual layer DVDR hits the streets (although that probably won't be accepted by replicators either, for very good reasons initially).

There is always the flipper disc (DVD-10) option! Saves you the surface art costs too! (just that hub ring label to say which way to look so you don't get run over, or something else just as ambiguous/confusing)