Last I checked, software, no matter what the price, didn't have an imagination. Can you say BORING?
There is a market however for the person who dreads having to edit his Christmas gathering. The sad part is, when he shows his new "movie" to family members, and they ask "Did you do that?"...what's he going to answer? Picture him answering with pride, "Yeah, I pushed the button.".

M

Yeah, on the screen savers they talked about this program, and on Shop @ Home they sell it with computers. I just thought i'd list some technology that would give people more time and make things easier. You do the math. :)

Plug-and-Play. Nuf said.
USB. No need to install drivers and everything is hot-swapable!
Washer and Drier. It will give mom's more time to do what they want (more laundry).
Faster computers. Now your boss expects more for less pay.
NLE software. Now anyone with a couple extra $100 can be a movie director.

making certian things easier isn't so much my point as just taking work of of the equation. And in the case of automated editing I think it goes a bit too far. Plug and Play was/is a good idea because of the fact that so many people now use computers. USB fits the bill because all someone has to do is just go out and buy a USB device and it will really 'plug and play'. (We hope) I mean if I need to edit I want to edit, not have to do PC repair work - doesn't matter if I can do it, just it isn't my 'job' if you know what I mean. So equate that to someone, say my mother who is in her 70's, who really doesn't know a lot about computers and still comes to me when she gets a pop up saying "This web site is best viewed with..."

I have no problem with a lot of what goes on but I think about the idea of actually doing things in a hands on method. Would I want to churn butter or stone wash cloths? Not really. Do I want to wait for a week while a 30 second clip renders? Not really. But what fun is it to - well here is a description of the Visual Communicator workflow:
========
1. Choose an overall look for your presentation from the extensive library of professional graphics and templates. The Wizard automatically adapts each graphic and title to suit your needs.

2. Type or paste a script or outline into the teleprompter to narrate your presentation. Then drag-and-drop any graphic, video clip or music next to the words it corresponds with.

3. Press record and begin reading from the teleprompter as all graphics and transitions are added instantly - just like a TV newscast. When finished, save it in the format of your choice.
======

Yes there is still some work there - if you are a writer who writes the copy or the talent who 'acts' it out. But how much directing or editing really goes into that? Like Studio 9 you just pick a 'look' or 'syle' and hit 'record' or whatever button and it does the rest for you. Another side of this would be - copyright!!! Now will we see people suing because their "look" or "style" was used in a production? Will people start wanting royalties every time one of "their" looks is used? Will we start to see templates in the vein of loops and stock footage? "Hey I want to make an Academy Award winning film. I am going to buy the 'Oscar Winners Style library' and use it." Don't laugh - it could happen.

Yeah, that could happen. That would really suck if it did happen. :) But don't we kinda do that already? We all buy the same music loops, we all buy the same stock footage, we all but the same software with the same defaults... You get it.

I don't think we have to worry about this software much. It's mostly for people who wouldn't pay to have someone else do work for them anyway (like my parents! :) ). It's not as threating as DV was to "pro" film guys.

On the plus side for us, WE could buy that software and if someone only wants to pay $30 for an edited wedding video, toss it in the blender and see what comes out. :)

I'd be interested to try out the software. See how it actuatly does. I know it won't compare to anyone here, but it's be cute to see how it works. Kinda like those dancing robots Sony made. They don't do anything real useful, but look neat. :)

"making certian things easier isn't so much my point as just taking work of of the equation."

The problem with the concept of this kind of software is not that it takes away the 'work', but that it takes away the fun! We do what we do because we find enjoyment in it. That's why we would never buy such crap. People who have no interest in the process as we, but want a "finished" looking video, those are the types to buy this.

I've seen or heard about this software being about, about 5 years back, I'm sure I have . . .

Anyways, there's always been "Painting By Numbers"; night school for the aspirant "I'm a Potter" individual; "I work with computers" - no you don't, you switch on the monitor and enter numbers in Excel!; . . . okay, enuf Grazie . . . where and what's this REALLY about?

We don't have the market on personal expression. We don't have the market on THE market either. We can only do our damn best to do our damn best . . that's as good as it gets. Do I think a relative of the couple can make as good a wedding video as I can? Maybe, maybe not. I tell you what though . . I lay awake at night either being tortured by what isn't correct about something I've done OR flipping the other way and being Sooooo stimulated by what I could do and can't stay in bed for wanting to try it out! THAT makes me alive . . THAT makes me come back time and time again to this screen . . will this be the case for the user of this "Belnder" s/w? I doubt it. If it is and that person gets "bitten" by this DV bug . . well great! We'll see him/her here in the months to come. If not - do you think that s/w will be used again? Nah!

It's all about self expression. If it works for that person, so be it. . . . Now DON'T get me started on camera work . . hah!!!

Love all of youse - Grazie ;-)

>>>Now DON'T get me started on camera work<<<

LOL! That is too funny because I was thinking about a 'what if'...what if they applied this software to a camera. Sort if took the 'style' idea and made it downloadable like a bios/rom type of thing. Load it up into something like the DVX100 and than put the camera on a tripod. Go through the menu and select something like - Style: Romantic, Shot: Master, Subjects: 2, Setting: Twilight. Then all you do was hit record and the camera adjusts the frame and the shot and shoots the scene. Combine this with something like an automatic dolly or job arm.

And than little Timmy wakes up from his nightmare in a cold sweat.
Fade to black.

Now THAT'S a great video! - You've given me a terrific idea - hah!!! You interested?

But honestly . . . do we have so little belief in our abilities? Do we have such low opinions of our work that we see this as a threat? If so, well, there is something wrong. I suppose at the end of the day it's about "protection" of a market. Well, that's another thread . . . Is quality its own reward? Mostly not. This is the "yoke" of the artist . . . Mediocracy is always present. Look/hear some of the MIDI music being thumped out by "musicians" . .I aint no musician, but even I can hear how bad it is . . . Do I see other people's wedding work and think,"How the hell did the client accept that rubbish?!?!" . . oh yes . . . . Do I think I could've done better - yes! But that's always been the case . . .

All we can hope for is that the ripples of "excellence" or quality we produce, in whatever field we work in, race outwards faster than the hoardes of low quality that are always lapping and snapping [ if a wave can snap - you fool Grazie ] at our heels - I'm serious! Can I rest in bed at night believeing I've done my best? - Sometimes. . . sometimes not . . . Am I restless about my capabilities and abilities - you BETCHA! - and that doesn't go away . . well it shouldn't . . .

. . enough from me, I get really "typy" at 5:30am in the morning . . .

Regards,

Grazie

Reading the description of it I don't think it automates things that much, in fact all joking aside it could be of some use in even a pro situation. Being able to write a "script" (read narration) , time that against video and have that presented for doing voice overs sounds like a half usefull idea. I'm sure there's some high end kit that does that but not at this price point. The rest of it is of course a joke. How is it going to decide how to trim a shot or how the transitions relate to the shots etc.

But in reality we have to accept that video is now very much in the consumer domain. Same thing happened with still photography, how many Joe Averages can take a photo even vaguely half as good as a pro, yet how many pro still photographers are there left compared to 50 years ago. I remember as a kid just about every local shopping centre had a butcher, pharmacist and a photogrphic studio. Pretty well all of those are gone now.

And now we have automated tools to fix up poorly shot stills. Do they do as good a job as a pro could, no off course not, but who can afford to pay a pro to work on their happy snaps.

Just stop and think about the number of video cameras being sold, a friend of friend decided to become a Canon dealer, just as a sideline to his computer business. He sells about 2 XL1s per week and that's in Sydney. What the heck is going to happen to all that footage coming out of all those cameras, anyone want to put their hands up for the job of editing it no matter what the pay

Maybe someday there will be smart software that really can make judgements such that, in order to portray the emotion meant for the moment (perhaps chosen from a drop dowm menu???), and even just make the shots work right together, the transition between Shot A and Shot B should be at 00:00:05:18 instead of 00:00:05:11, and Shot B should be at 76% velocity and not 80%, etc. In the mean time, imagine having to shoot and log a whole movie in a way that would actually allow this kind of system to work. I get a headache just thinking about it.

There really might be a place for automated editing in certain kinds of work, but I think it will be many years, if ever, before software is developed that can make the many, many creative decisions that editors make every minute they work.

We'll see what the future actually brings... I love TheHappyFriar's analogies of the washer/dryer, NLE software, etc.

JCG

Farss, I had the thread opened while you posted your reply and didn't see yours at first. I fully agree with your points. I guess the good news in still photography (I think so, anyway) is one can still tell the difference between a professionally shot portrait and even a quality do-it-yourself job.

About all those XL1s being sold, I'll bet many of them will not get a lot of use. That is a shame because think how much the old family stuff is eventually loved by all.

JCG

Actually I was just thinking some more about this. I'm just finishing off a job for a client that has been on my systems for a month now. I gave them back a tape with burnt in time code so they could tell me roughly what bit that wanted where, just simple stuff, maybe put some names and dates to the old family movies.
Didn't work out, just too hard they decided. So as per instructions it just goes out on tape and DVD 'as is'. But I'd imagine the day isn't too far off when I can ask a system to find all the shots of the same person, what with biometrics at the level they're at now that shouldn't be too hard.

. . . brill it worked! You just typed what I thought! Canny this stuff - init?!?!

Grazie

The color correction tool in Studio 9 is a 'tool' if you know what I mean. I watched it demo'ed twice at CES.
the way the beat mapping works is that it seeks transients in the music, inserts marker points just like dropping markers in Vegas, and then it cuts all the media in your bin to lengths and inserts it, to be slip edited.
then you drop a menu on the front of the Studio timeline, and it links inserted chapter points to the menu buttons created by the user.
it is indeed trick, and quite fast. But as you say, it's not creative nor inspired at all. The way Pinnacle was demoing it, BTW, was clips of T&A, set to very risque music. And the presenter was just going off all the time about, "Wouldn't YOU like to have shot this, I know I certainly didn't mind editing it, wanna see it again?" Apparently they got lots of complaints. It was pretty disgusting, and I'm never one to be offended by pretty ladies in bikinis. This footage was more female flesh than it was bikini though.
Anyway, it was interesting to see Pinnacle's new push. A huge 30x30 booth just for Studio!

I bet there are a LOT of people who just want to archive their analog videos to DVD and have no desire to become an editor or “work” for it. (i.e., they don’t think editing video is fun but they do think watching their video on DVD is fun!). This product is perfect for them. Today in Studio 8 its three clicks. Studio already does scene detection and allows you to replicate a single transition across all the cuts. It also has SmartSound which will add music to the exact length of your video with an into, verses/chorus, and an ending. Add a menu to the front of that and a fade to black at the end and you’re done. They are just automating that process with templates. It’s a very clever idea. Would you suggest Photoshop remove their batch mode capability because it “takes the work out?” You could argue that for optimal results no two pictures should be processed exactly the same. ;-)

When you have 200+ tapes to turn into DVD’s you don’t want to edit and be creative. You just want to get them over there before the 15-year-old tape breaks! My brother-in-law wants to do exactly that. He doesn’t care about titles or music; he just wants his Hi8 movies on DVD. He doesn’t even want to waste time rendering. He asked me to find him a hardware solution that would capture MPEG2 so he could burn directly to DVD. I bet if you told him for one click he could add titles, music and transitions, it might make him buy Studio 9 instead of another package. I bet there is a huge market for this.

Having said all that, I realize that this process won’t cut out all the shaky video or pictures of the ceiling/floor so you’ll still have an unwatchable video just with titles and music this time. (perhaps the music will make the ceiling more interesting?) To get great video you still need to edit. ‘-)

Food for thought:

People on this forum have asked for Vegas scripts that do what Studio 9 does. It can’t be done in Vegas because we need more control of generated media in the script API but if it were possible, we would have written a script like this already. No one jumped on them about taking the “work” out of it because some of them have a format that they use for a repeating broadcast each week or evening. So even professionals in a “time crunch” might find this capability very useful. You would still need to organize your shots, but then push a button and having it generate your show is a pretty neat idea. Add the ability to customize the templates and you’re all set to do instant productions.

This will shift the creativity from the mundane assembly to the creation of unique templates. How many wedding videos are cookie-cutter? Pretty much the same chain of events at each wedding. This could be great for that. You could produce more, faster! I think a template driven video timeline would be a great addition to Vegas. Not for everyone, but great for repetitive format productions.

~jr

I bought Pinnacle Edtion, then sold it and bought Vegas.

If the Studio color corrector is even close to the one they use in Edition (in ability to correct) - I'm buying it - just for auto correcting color on bad clips.
I never had a clip that needed further adjustment after their color corrector 'corrected' it.

That was the ONLY thing I missed when going to Vegas.

Additionally, the image stabilization sounds interesting, it's ability would be questionable until experienced though.

For me, those two tools could be useful in correcting some source material before editing with Vegas.

In our other thread about the "Value of Editing" (http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=243283&Replies=23&Page=1), I noted that a good chunk of editing is intuitive, not forumlaic. Ask any editor how he or she knows when to make a cut, and they'll usually answer that "it just feels right."

Computers are great at formula (they are just big binary adding machines, after all) but not so good at intuition. Sure, some kind of automation may work for standard-issue, boilerplate projects like wedding videos (although I've seen some of these that are pretty creative). However, I don't think any software is going to being able to create something like, say "Fast, Cheap and Out of Control."

I can see some value in software, even for pros, that would let me choose a consistent type face and lower-third graphic that would then be used throughout the production. Let's face it, a lot of editing is drudgery, and it's not a bad idea to reduce this where possible. (Although, there is a risk that reducing the time spent working on material decreases the chance of getting to an inspiration.)

Now, as I write this, it occurs to me that this "Will it replace a human" discussion has been repeated at every stage of automation. Computer chess programs now regularly beat human grand chess masters, an "impossibility" just ten years ago. Perhaps there is an underlying mathematics to editing that we have yet to discover. Perhaps this can be translated into a formula and an algorithm that will some day enable a computer to match up against, say a Walter Murch. I doubt it, but I could be proven wrong.

There's a great old story about Henry Ford II taking the President of the United Auto Workers on a tour of a new robotic Ford plant. Pointing at the robots, Ford said "Let's see you try to organize those." The UAW president shot back, "Let's see you try to sell them a Ford."

Its a Gimic.. and just goes to prove how Amatuerish pinnacle is to try and market it for people to edit, perhaps precious footage. Much better to just leave it unedited.

How can serious editing be speeded up ?

Surely you have to pace and time every unpredictable moment. and that is the editors skill. Years of practice and slog it finally starts to look professional. What looks easy is not something that can merely be picked up or programmed. It really is an artform. and all the NLEs in the world will not make a better editor only a more comfortable happy one.

I bet that editors working on film 70 years ago would be far more talented than me or your average film buff, even with todays technology.

Thats because its an unprogrammable Skill.

Amen to that, Mark2929.

JCG

Pinnacle. LOL. I remember when I first started on Studio 7. It was crap. Then 8 came out and I gave them another try. Still crap. Take a look at their "support" forum. I run Vegas and Premiere Pro The only Pinnacle product worth a damn is Liquid Edition and that is only because of the background rendering it does. Other than that, its no where as close as Vegas. Hopefully Sony will add background rendering in VV5.

When I look at a new program the first thing I do is press the simple commands and expect this to work. When a program is designed quite often the programmers will know what buttons they will use for there convienience and then build on that. What they have to do is realise the eventual customer will not want to spend a lot of time learning there way and will want to learn from logic and a collective learnt experience. Which is what Vegas does very well. Pinnacle (My Opinion Has not.)

Me . .VideoSlave [The Dark Side! ] versions 3 and 5 >> Studio 7 >> SonicFoundry VideoFactory . .oh, is THAT how it's supposed to work . . .. >> Vegas 3 and now 4 . . .AH, clear Blue Water!!!

Vegas just works. PERIOD!

. . that's all folks . .

Grazie