Actually - if you are rendering your videos for the purpose of burning a DVD - definitely use MPEG2. That is the native format for DVDs. If you render the videos using AVI, your DVD software will need to re-render the AVI to convert it to MPEG2. Every re-rendering of a video file can cause some degradation in the video. So start with MPEG2 and you'll be in good shape.

XiroCco - you pose a good question. I don't think you're losing anything during the initial render/save from AVI to AVI in Vegas - you're just incorporating field settings, deinterlacing, ect (whatever you have set in the properties). The file size is basically the same from AVI to AVI, unless of course you edit some stuff out.
I like to then use Architect to render to MPEG-2 because you can maximize the kbps (Optimize).

Assume you have a 6Gb AVI and you trim some excess fore and aft, and then add some text at a number of places. If you render this as an AVI, resulting in essentially the same 6Gb file, have you really lost anything? I know that DVDA will then rerender to MPEG-2 and this will cause some loss.

If you render the AVI as MPEG-2, the process takes significantly longer. Doesn't DVDA actually rerender the MPEG-2 as it prepares the DVD file? If so, you still have another lossy process. I've never seen this adequately explained.

quote:"I like to then use Architect to render to MPEG-2 because you can maximize the kbps (Optimize)." endquote

What is the Optimize? What does it do?

I'm with you Bob N on the explainations. I have asked Sony Tech Support directly and I got an answer that was so far off base from my original question that I bagged that route. I've been learning through testing stuff out myself and asking others/forums.

Optimize - so let's say when you're in Vegas and you edit a few things and then resave as an AVI - it renders, yes. Does it actually lose anything like you ask? I have no idea either, but I would assume no. Open Architect, add your new AVI, make your menus and click on "Make DVD". Then choose "Prepare". Choose your work directory, and then you'll see a button for "optimize" which brings up a dialog letting you choose the bit rate amongst other things. I hit "Fit to Disc" and it will automatically set to encode it just enough to fit on 95% of a single layer. I then slide the adjust a little to the right to make it 100%. If you want it to be on a dual layer, you need to define that before you go into the "Prepare" and supposedly it let's you choose where you want the layer change to occur - I haven't tried that yet.

The only problem is how do I burn a 6gb file to a 4.7gb DVD? It is to large a file. I am trying to burn a DVD edited and created in architect and it is 6.40gb - how do i burn it?

stbarroc - read my instructions above. "Fit to Disc".

Hip School,
I tried that but it is still telling me the file is to large

If you do a search of the forums (the hyperlink next to the word forums) using the key words "too large" you will find loads of info on how to deal with files that are too large.

to answer your original question stbarroc - the normal convention is to save as avi and then let DVDA automatically adjust the bit rates to accomodate your file with the fit to disk option. As the bit rate is reduced - so is the quality. How far you go is a subjective thing. Think of it like a vcr tape at XLP verses standard. For your purposes it may not be that noticable. Then again you may be forced to make a two part video or use alternate media. The search will cover all this in detail.

Just a few notes to hopefully clear up any confusion ...

Rendering is almost always lossy. The only time you'll hever have lossless rendering is when you're going from DV .avi -> DV .avi and you have applied no effects, titles, color correction, cropping, field settings changes, speed changes, etc. If you've altered the video in any way, then Vegas will decode and reencode, compressing to DV again and this is lossy. I wouldn't worry about it too much though because Vegas' internal DV codec is very very good and has been shown to stand up to dozens of generations without substantial quality loss.

MPEG -> MPEG rendering is always lossy, and substantially more so than DV -> DV or even DV -> MPEG. Always try to save the conversion to MPEG as the last step and make sure it happens only once.

In the full version of Vegas is it suggested to render to MPEG in Vegas and then hand the MPEG file to DVD Architect. This is because the full version lets you control the encoding parameters and choose the quality settings you want. You can't do this with the Studio version, so you'll probably end up with a file that's too big for the DVD so that it has to be recompressed (losing more quality) or too small resulting in less quality than you could have had. So the advice with the Studio version is to render to DV .avi with very minimal quality loss, then let DVD Architect Studio do the conversion to MPEG for you since it will pick the best quality settings possible to allow the video to fit on the disc.

The "prepare" step in DVDA is not a render step. If you have created an MPEG file in Vegas and you give this file to DVDA, as long as it will fit on the disc DVDA will not reencode it and there will be no quality loss. All DVDA is doing is combining the audio and video streams into .VOB files; it's not compressing or altering the data at all. However, if you give it an MPEG file that is too large then it will recompress it, doing an MPEG -> MPEG render, which is very lossy, and then prepare the .VOB files. So, This is yet another reason to render to AVI in Vegas Studio so that you can avoid DVDA doing an MPEG -> MPEG recompression.

Just to add a bit to what Kelly said, if I am creating a video that I know will fit on the disk with room to spare (say, under one hour), I will have VMS render to MPEG. That saves you having VMS render to AVI and then having DVD rerender to MPEG, and thus you get things done quicker by doing it in one step. If the video is much more than an hour long I render to AVI and then have DVDA compress it to MPEG. As discussed above, use the optimize "fit to disk" feature to calculate the bitrate. Oh, and I have read recommendations that say you shouldn't go for %100 since that writes to the very edge of the disk, which is more prone to scratching and dye inconsistencies.

If the dvd you are intending to make is about an hour and fifteen minutes then the better process generally is to use vms to render the avi file into mpeg2. If you are going to have more than a bare bones menu though the length will need to be shorter. The reason is that vms is generally faster in rendering a avi into mpeg2 than dvda is. You would render in vms, then in dvda you would make the dvd. You would either prepare or prepare/burn.

If dvda tells you the file is to big to fit to a disc you can simply prepare. Then use a program like dvdshrink to make it fit to a single layer dvd. Lastly you would use whatever burning program to burn the dvd.

If you know that it will not fit to a dvd, then use dvda to render the avi into mpeg2. This is after you have edited the final avi version of the video in vms. DVDA will render the avi into an mpeg2 in a bitrate that will insure the video and menus fit onto a dvd. DVDA is not as efficient as vms in rendering. It will take substantially longer.

But what you don't want to do is to use dvda to re-render an mpeg2 video back into mpeg2. The video quality will definitely be degraded and it will take substantial amount of time.

So if you have already rendered the video into mpeg2, go ahead and prepare a dvd in dvda. Then use dvdshrink to make it fit to a dvd.

Just to add to what Paul was saying about burning, it is also not good to go to 100% as the size needed to burn a video to a DVD are approximated; particularlyy when using variable bit rates. I have made more than a few coasters or had to re-render a project because of trying to get that extra few percent. I would hope they picked 95% for a reason.

If I know that my project will fit a DVD I like to render to MPEG in VMS. If I create a menu with Chapter Points and theme music then when I render or prepare with dvda it does not rerender the mpeg portion from VMS, only the new portion. That way if I want to change something that I did not like with the Menu it only renders that portion instead of the whole thing. This could be a significant time saver. Hope I made this clear enough.

Billy