Background "breathing" noise

shroadster wrote on 6/10/2005, 6:51 PM
Hi, when I capture video/audio from my camera into Vegas, I've noticed that the audio in the background has a slight "breathing" sound to it. It's almost as if it's going up and down. It's happened with all of my mics, so it hasn't anything to do with them.

This is only present after I capture. When I view it on a television, or even in Vegas capture before actually recording, the audio is normal with a solid background noise. Here is a short clip of the background noise:

http://www.freewebs.com/shroader18/example.mp3

Turn the volume up, and it almost seems as though it's breathing.

Any ideas why this is happening? Thanks!

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 6/10/2005, 6:56 PM
Shroadster, I'm getting an "exceeded bandwidth" message.
shroadster wrote on 6/10/2005, 6:59 PM
Sorry about that. It should work now.
rigomortsfx studios wrote on 6/10/2005, 7:00 PM
noise I had the samething happen to me with the magic bullet fxs
theres this hmmmm sound when i use the warm preset
and only that one
buzz or hmmmmmm some kind of feed back
not sure why it does that
shroadster wrote on 6/10/2005, 10:11 PM
No Magic Bullet here. And it's more of a raising and lowering background noise rather than just a buzz.
Grazie wrote on 6/10/2005, 10:50 PM

I hear it. I never had that one.

You are capturing "directly" into Vegas using a mic? Yes? You appear to have a form of volume phasing. My 2 pennies worth is that you are somehow get a type of volume feedback which inturn is being re-captured as the system phases to the next peak and then settles back. In your method can you/ are you "monitoring" what you are recording directly into Vegas? Maybe you are getting this audio preview phasing the orignal? Have you got the camera's loudspeakers turned up? . . Do you see where I'm coming from with this?

I'm making a wild guess here . .. First off I would experiment totally isolating the mic from any extraeneous sound: no feedback from what is being recorded - if you want to "monitor" use cans.

Another possibility is that there is some form of internal maths going on that is sampling the audio in a weird "phasing" way .. . I wouldn't know what to suggest, if this is the case.

Interesting . .. . apart from that it is a really sinister sounding piece! Could be useful too! - BUT if you don't want it a real pain. NR for getting rid, but better isolating and removeing from the initial capture is the way to go.

Please experiment and keep us informed ..

Grazie

farss wrote on 6/11/2005, 1:19 AM
Well the sample seems to have vanished so I'm kind of groping in the dark here but I'd have to go along with Grazie. What happens if you convert to mono? That can reveal a lot and oftenly kill off problems.
If you've got SF the spectrum analyser can help you get a better picture of just what you're dealing with as well. I'm making more and more use of it in conjunction with paragrapjic Eq rather than NR2, NR2 is a GREAT tool but oftenly it's just too broad for my liking. Take the case of old analogue tapes, they invariably have a mixture of tape noise and hum. Now you just cannot kill the tape noise, you'll mangle the whole spectrum trying, but once you find the hum frequencies you can easily use some Eq to get rid of them very nicely.
Something else i found only yesterday that comes with SF, a decent 'soft' noise gate, way better than the near useless thing that comes with Vegas. Look under Effects>Dynamics>Graphics.
Bob.
JJKizak wrote on 6/11/2005, 5:45 AM
Do the simple things first. Go into your capture options and turn off monitor audio. Then try it.


JJK
shroadster wrote on 6/11/2005, 10:05 AM
Thanks for the replies.

I turned off "preview audio," and the same results occurred.

Just for the heck of it, I captured the same clip with Windows Movie Maker...and the audio sounded perfect (no background breathing).

So it has to be something with Vegas. Any more ideas?

Thanks for the help.
Spot|DSE wrote on 6/11/2005, 11:20 AM
Shroadster,
Can you send me a veg of this? That is definitely weird. But the bigger question that begs to be answered is levels, and what effects you have on the track.

When you cap with VidCap and play back from Vidcap, do you still hear it?
shroadster wrote on 6/11/2005, 11:29 AM
Hey Spot,

There are no effects on the track. It is how the bare audio sounds.

When I play back from VidCap, the camera, or through a TV, the sound is NOT present. If I'm previewing the audio while recording, the sound is not present either. It's only present once the media is captured.

If you still need a veg I'd be happy to send one.

Thanks for the help.
Spot|DSE wrote on 6/11/2005, 1:20 PM
please send a veg of the project. This gets curiouser and curiouser!
Spot|DSE wrote on 6/11/2005, 2:37 PM
After receiving your veg file, this is even more baffling.
Shouldn't affect it, but try removing your FX on that audio channel. Nothing I can see is routed weird, so that's my next culprit to look for.
I dropped in the wav you sent me as a take, and can't see/hear it popping to any other location, and also dropped on some extreme visual effects, that didn't affect it
either. By chance, does this go away when you mute or delete the video track? If so, I'm wondering if you've got illegal video, but I've never seen/heard this affect audio on the TIMELINE. I've only seen/heard it on playback on a television, because the television is where the limitations are at.
Grazie wrote on 6/11/2005, 2:39 PM
Yes, Spot . . I concur. - G
shroadster wrote on 6/11/2005, 2:47 PM
Removing the FX didn't affect it at all. I also tried muting/deleting the video track...nothing changed.
farss wrote on 6/11/2005, 3:56 PM
I MAY have the answer as I used to have something similar happen. When I used to use the mobo audio for monitoring it'd produce some wierd sounds depending on CPU load. Clearly the analogue circuits in the $2 'sound card' weren't decoupled properly from the power supply, so as the CPU drew more current the resulting noise on the PS got into the sound card output.
Of course none of this actually ended up in anything in the digital realm, it only affected what was coming out of the speakers during playback. So the test in this case would be to wind the gain WAY up on the audio and render it out to a wav file and see if you can see anything. If you can then my problem isn't your problem.
Bob.
JJKizak wrote on 6/11/2005, 4:30 PM
Also how much memory are you running and what board and what everything else?

JJK
shroadster wrote on 6/11/2005, 4:49 PM
Bob, I tried your suggestion and unfortunately it didn't work.

JJK- I just updated my "system specs."


farss wrote on 6/11/2005, 4:56 PM
I've NEVER understood why this sort of question keeps coming up, sure it's relevant for It Doesn't Run issues, it's relevant to speed issues, it's sometimes relevant if you cannot capture or PTT but it's TOTALY irrelevant if Vegas is running reliably.
Vegas works in the digital realm as does every other application running on your PC, even capturing video isn't that much different to downloading a file from the internet. If you can do a few basic things on your PC, like browse the web and use notepad then it's pretty unlikely that anything oddball happening TO your video or audio in Vegas has anything to do with your hardware.
Obviously how smoothly your video experience runs will have a lot to do with your hardware, being able to reliably capture or PTT does have a lot to do with your hardware, but again it'll either work or not, it's take the most bizare CPU problem to cause say your captured video to turn green.
Bob.
farss wrote on 6/11/2005, 4:58 PM
Can you define 'didn't work'?
Can you 'see' these odd sounds in a rendered file in the waveforms?
Bob.
shroadster wrote on 6/11/2005, 8:14 PM
To be honest I'm not quite sure what you're asking Bob. I don't know what you mean by "see" these sounds. I certainly can hear them though.

Thanks for the help.
B.Verlik wrote on 6/11/2005, 8:20 PM
I think he's talking about looking at the wave form in the timeline. If you zoom in on it, sometimes the noise has a "certain look" to it. It looks a little different from the rest of the normal audio. It may be something that somebody like Bob, who seems to have a lot of experience in these things, can help him figure out what the problem is.
farss wrote on 6/11/2005, 10:03 PM
That's pretty much it. If you can see something in say a rendered file's waveform then it's absolutley no question about it, it's honest to god there! If you hear something then it could be absolutely anything, I've been wearing cans and wondering what that strange noise was only to find it was the headphone cord rubbing on something, and why was that, the cat was playing with it!
So when I work with audio I spend as much time looking as I do listening because that way I'm looking at the data in the file.
If you hold down the shift key and hit the up/down arrow keys you can zoom the waveforms in and out, very, very handy.
If after you've zoomed right in on the wavform and you see nothing that relates to the sounds that you're hearing then they're not there, period. Doesn't mean your nuts, just means they're not in the recording and they've not been added by Vegas. What it most likely means is they're being added by the sound card and you can ignore them. Not to say it mightn't be time to get a better sound card though.
shroadster wrote on 6/11/2005, 10:21 PM
Thanks for the replies.

Okay I looked at the waveform, and I didn't notice any major relation between what I saw and the sound.

However as I stated before, when I captured the same clip with Windows Movie Maker, the background "breathing" sound was not present. I've also burned the Vegas-captured clip(s) to DVDs and recorded them to tapes, and the sound is definitely present when viewing them. However, as I said before, when I play it through the camera onto a television, or even VidCap before I actually record, the sound is NOT present.

This leads me to conclude that it has something to do with Vegas. The question is what.
GlennChan wrote on 6/11/2005, 10:50 PM
Wild guesses:

1- Is it the background noise that's "breathing"?
Some sounds with two different frequencies will have a "beat" to them. The Hz/frequency of the beat can be calculated by subtracting the two frequencies.
In this case, the actual physical location sound might be the culprit? Maybe Vegas is bringing it out for some reason.

2- Try making some silence in Vegas by taking a clip and putting its volume all the way down. Play that silence. You may hear your sound card's noise when you do this. When your sound card isn't doing anything, it may not put out noise.

My computer makes all sorts of noises... the motherboard makes noise during certain activities.
On the audio output, computer activity can correlate to noise on that audio output because of electrical interference from the motherboard's on-board components.
On my headphones, I used to be able to pickup the radio (because of ground loop issues most likely).

3- Maybe it's your cameras' auto-gain control? Most won't behave like your clip though.

Yeah I do hear breathing in your clip (it sounds like the beat thing I mentioned in 1).

4- How are you capturing the audio? Is the audio coming in on:
firewire?
line in?
microphone in?