Basketball Highlight Reel...

jrazz wrote on 1/23/2006, 5:44 PM

I am meeting with a coach from a local university tomorrow night to discuss making a highlight reel for his girls team. He says that the season has been filmed on VHS on a stationary camera that sits at half-court. I am unsure if it moves with possession of the ball or if it just has a wide angle lens.
Over the phone, we discussed me filming from different angles around the court using my equipment and incorporating those shots into the footage. This footage would be captured during the next couple of home games. I would then take the footage home, edit it, apply music and produce a highlight video.

Here are my questions as I have strictly done weddings before (aside from the occasional talking head).
1. What should I charge for doing this? He threw out $100 dollars and then later threw out $500 as he did not know what I would charge and he also said that his department does not have a budget specifically for this. He did say that he was willing to do things on his end to make my costs less (i.e.- convert VHS to digital).
2. What would be some loops you would suggest, or some royalty free music that I could purchase or obtain freely?
3. How long should a highlight video be?
4. He does not have a budget for this and I would assume that 500 would probably be the max... we will see tomorrow night when we discuss this further, but if this is something that I could do during non-peak wedding seasons, would it be a good thing to do for cheap?
5. Any other pointers that you would think I need to know?
Thanks

j razz

Comments

johnmeyer wrote on 1/23/2006, 7:31 PM

I have done dozens of these, for girl's basketball. Until recently, I didn't charge, because my daughter was on the team. She's graduated, and I'm still being asked.

My most recent was for $250. I could have gotten more, but I know everyone, so it's tough to ask for the amount that it's really worth. Even at $250, they thought it was high. Obviously, it is not.

One idea, that works really well to negotiate a higher price is to set up a "deal" on duplication. Normally, I charge $20/copy. However, the deal I worked out with them was to ask THEM to charge $20/copy, but pay me $10. I told them that they had to guarantee me 20 copies. Thus, I got my fee up to $450 (duplication is easy), and I was able to point out to them that they were really only paying me $50 net for my services. What's more, I put them on my side in trying to get everyone to order a copy. They have every incentive to get eveyone to order.

It's amazing how well this "trick" works. I highly recommend it. You can devise your own variations, with your own figures, but you get the general idea.

jrazz wrote on 1/23/2006, 8:21 PM

John,
How long are your highlights usually? What music do you use to fill in?
Thanks

j razz

johnmeyer wrote on 1/23/2006, 9:08 PM

How long are your highlights usually? What music do you use to fill in?

I got so wrapped in telling you my "clever" idea that I forgot to answer your other questions.

Highlight length. I've done them as long as nine minutes (championship year) and as short as four and a half. They are usually shown at the awards ceremony, as a finale, so anything much shorter than five doesn't fit into the timing of the evening. Anything more than ten minutes, and people start to get restless. Shoot for about seven minutes.

Music. When I originally did this, I didn't charge, so I used real music. Still not Kosher, I fully understand, but it didn't seem too awful. Once you charge, that definitely changes the equation.

There has been more discussion about this subject over the past few years than just about anything else. There is absolutely no way you can get a sync license, which is what is legally required. It is totally impossible for a small project like you're doing. And, unless you are very talented and can do your own music, or unless you want to live with the synthetic music generated by ACID (which is great for corporate work, but which I've never gotten to "fit" weddings or sports or other events), you're in a tough spot. I can't advise you in a public forum to use copyrighted music, but I can't give you much of an alternative either. All I can say is that music is the heart and soul of this kind of video work, and you'll have to wrestle with your conscience and your wallet and decide what to do.

Click on this link

Video Samples

and then click on one of the first two items (PowderPuff or Volleyball) to see the sort of things I've done in the past. You may need to click a few times because Yahoo has been acting up.

jrazz wrote on 1/24/2006, 6:27 AM

Thanks for the help John. I wonder what it would take to get sync license authorization here in the states like they have in Europe or in Australia? I don't see how the labels couldn't make money off of it and people who want to be legal could and everyone would live happily ever after... okay, back to reality; I think even Canada has something equivalent to this- I just don't see the con to it. If people are going to use it, they are going to use it; but if there is an option to be legal- I would take that every time. Just doesn't make sense to me.

j razz

randy-stewart wrote on 1/24/2006, 5:42 PM

Johnmeyer/Jrazz,
I've used a variation of your pricing scheme that works well for schools. I don't charge the school for the project opting for getting reimbursed by disk sales. On one documentary, the school sold over 80 copies. I was doing it for cost (material only) for a fund raiser so I took only $1.00 a copy and they sold them for $10.00. We had to rent a projector and screen ($300) for the show during a festival day so they netted over $400. The school really liked the fact that it cost them nothing. Like you said Johnmeyer, this marketing technique is a win-win for both school and videoographer. It's pretty easy to sell disks for $15.00 each with you taking $10 and the school taking $5.00. Imagine the potential for graduations, prom, sporting events, dances, etc. The only risk is getting the school to guarantee a minimum amount of sales. Heck, they're great at that. If you'd like to view the documentary, it's on my web site at the below link. Scroll down to the Hoala Dedication Video.
Take care,
Randy
http://www.cr-home-videos.com/samplevideos.html

flippin wrote on 1/24/2006, 6:08 PM

I have done this type of work many times for boys basketball, under similar circumstances to John's....i.e., free because my son is on the team.

John is absolutely right in every respect about the music--a powerful soundtrack is truly key in this type of project but you must let go of any notion that you are going to somehow secure rights to use the copyrighted music you'd normally want for such a use. That won't happen so forget about it.

A few tips for the videotaping and editing--(1) You really need to get reasonable footage of all the players doing "something" and you need to be sure that they are all represented to some extent in the final video product. This is much tougher than it sounds for some kid's teams--often 2 or 3 players may have real watchable skill, another 4 or 5 will be mediocre, and another 2 or 3 will be outright dismal--depending on the coaching, these kids may spend more than their fair share of time on the bench and, when they're in the game they may not get to touch the ball very often. Even so, everyone needs to be represented in a highlights video in the best possible light if you don't want to hear from angry parents who can't understand why their kid only got 5 seconds total and none of it with the ball. Videotaping pregame warm-ups can provide some help here--everyone gets to practice shooting before the game starts. (2) Most of the time you will be filming what happens around the ball--that's where the real action is but, again, you'll likely notice that only a few kids really handle the ball very much, or very well. (3) Basketball highlights are a great venue for using velocity envelopes. Each basket that is scored can be isolated and slowed to 15 - 20 % of normal speed with Vegas to give a very cool effect (don't worry, kids' games are almost always low-scoring affairs and you'll be looking for ways to fill a decent highlight video. Also, you will automatically be throwing out all of the plays by the "other" teams (the ones that aren't paying you). Slo mo also works well on the opening jump ball of the game and it works well on some defensive plays as well. Basketball is such a fast game that slo mo segments can be very gripping even if the skill level of the players is not all that hot. (4) If you can extract decent stills from your video that can also be very helpful, especially for the underrepresented players--they'll hopefully be running (or doing something fast) so "action" stills can be striking. (Plus, even the kids who never actually sink a basket during entire season look good when they are captured by a still in the act of shooting...). (5) Hopefully this is needless advice--use a tripod at all times. Hand-held videocam footage is totally impossible in this setting.

Best regards,

Lee

tkalvey wrote on 1/24/2006, 6:18 PM

For music...

has anyone tried Staktraxx from digital juice? Somehow I got on their mailing list and have become quite interested in their products. They seem to offer alot of different options for adding elements to your/our productions.

jrazz wrote on 1/24/2006, 7:01 PM

The team I am filming is number 3 in their division. They lost to the number 1 team, which is in the same city by 6 points and they were ahead the entire game. Everybody got off the bench and played. They have an overall good team this year. Everyone can contribute to the team- again, this is a university. Music is going to be hard. I've been scouring the net for acid tracks that could be used, but like John said, they just don't fit well. I have Pinnicle 8 and the only reason I kept that worthless software is for the plugin of the music generator. Even these get lame after a while.
Great idea about the selling the product instead of charging for the production. When I spoke to the coach the other day, he stated that he gave these to the player at the end of the season as gifts, so there won't be many that are made, and there won't be any that are sold as far as I know, unless parents want one- which could be an option. Thanks for all the help. I wish there was a legal way to use copyrighted music! I'll let you all know what is decided on tomorrow. Thanks again,

j razz

randy-stewart wrote on 1/24/2006, 9:40 PM

By the way, forgot to mention that I use Digital Juice BackTraxx Vol 1 & 2 for music. Litterally thousands of tracks and very useable stuff. Have also used Free Play for freebie gigs. Free Play has a license you can buy for vid's that you use their music in and you want to sell. Hope that helps.
Randy

lgh529 wrote on 1/25/2006, 4:30 PM

Depending on how long the music is, you could try http://www.freeplaymusic.com. For this type of project you could spend the $50/song for up to 100 copies. They also have a good search function if you want to search for certain types of music.

jrazz wrote on 1/25/2006, 5:42 PM

I just got back from meeting with the coach. I gave him a price 300 even as he stated that they do not sell the highlight, they just give it to the players, boosters, etc. and use it for recruiting purposes. He stated that he would give my name to the men's basketball coach as well as the football coach and also to some surrounding area team's coaches- this would make for good busy work during the winter, but to be out filming/compiling/editing/and producing multiple copies (30 or so per team) just doesn't seem worth 300 bucks. I told him that I normally would charge 20 dollars an hour to film a talking head event/ compile/edit/produce, etc. and charge 15 per DVD copy made. (This is actually an opportunity to test out the A1 that I just got and learn some more with it so I really don't mind filming it). The coach stated that they don't really have that in their budget for this year, but he did say that he wants me take some footage during the games and would pay the $20 an hour just for the raw footage and if he could scrounge up the rest of the money from boosters etc, he would have me to edit it and if he couldn't, he would attempt to edit it himself.
I think what I will do after tomorrow night's game is make a short highlight reel of the game itself, put it to music and make it look really good; then downsample it using John Meyer's method- output it to DVD and have it back to him by the next game as incentive for coming up with the extra cash to get me to do all the editing, etc. and get my name out there in this field so that next year I will be included in the budget as a line item.
I think I have just completed my rambling. Thanks for all the input- I will look into Free Play.

j razz

jrazz wrote on 1/26/2006, 9:33 AM

To use Freeplay for this project, it would cost 540 dollars (30 copies), showing it at a banquet, using 4 songs! If they thought that my price was expensive there is no way this would be within a working budget! Good information to keep in mind for later though when someone does have a budget to operate on for these kind of things. This will drive you to pirating music as it is free and who has been sued? For now though, I will keep my morals and take the higher road.

j razz

flippin wrote on 1/26/2006, 10:17 AM

jrazz--

sorry, the university-level aspect of this project obviously got by me in the first reading of your message.

even so, i think that isolating some of the action in slo-mo with velocity envelopes is worth thinking about. basketball at any level lends itself well to very dramatic, eye-catching slo-mo.

sounds like you may be able to make some nice connections with other sports departments at the same university--might be a good thing, depending on your interest level for this type of work. the only people who need to see video of their performances more than actors are athletes.

for example, every high school athlete that applies for a university scholarship should have a concise, well-done video highlight dvd to send out to the university recruiters. the more elite university athletes need updated video highlights to send out to professional recruiters.

historically, athletes have usually done this on the cheap, e.g., dad pulls out the hand-held vidcam and shoots a few minutes of absolutely unwatchable junk. but, as competition for scholarships and pro contracts continues to grow, i think there could be a lot more business to be done in this area. there are already companies that will do this type of work in some of the larger urban areas; however, they are expensive (lots of overhead to pay for), may not be very flexible, and often "cookie-cutter" in their approach.

best regards,

Lee

Dach wrote on 1/26/2006, 12:33 PM

I wanted to throw in my two cents on this sbuject. First I will share that Digital Juice has some great sports music that you can incorporate into your project. Yes... you have to pay for it, but your getting the license and a quality product.

Its always hard to obtain a billing rate with clients. I suppose it depends if you are providing video services as a hobby or as a living. I started out as a weekend warrior and made a career change that led me to offering video services as a way to make a living, so I have learned alot.

In my experience, when dealing with schools and organizations that want such a video previously described they never want to spend money. The concept of selling copies of the video is great.... but there has to be a signed agreement that states that if a predetermined number of videos are not sold (by a certain time). the client will make up the difference. You invest equipment... liscenses... time....make sure its a win-win situation.

If your in the business to make a living then you should have a minimum billing rate that you need to achieve. How much do you need to make to pay for your overhead and pay yourself? Frankly... it should be no less than $45.00 an hour. This of course will vary.

Just my two cents...

Dach

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